[HPforGrownups] Horcruxes: Groundrules and Theories

[Juli]

No: HPFGUIDX 136145



John Kearns <jmkearns at gmail.com> wrote:

3) There is a fundamental difference between the soul fragments 
contained in Horcruxes and the original soul: Horcruxes can be 
destroyed, but as long as they still exist, the original soul cannot be.  This is the only way it makes sense - we /know/ Horcruxes can 
be destroyed, and we know that killing Voldemort himself must come 
last, and that he survived the AK.
 
Juli: I don't understand this sentence: "but as long as they still exist, the original soul cannot be." Isn't there a word missing, the word Die/killed/vanished at the end? the original soul cannot be killed?

4) You can't go on making Horcruxes forever.  Slughorn is astonished at the idea of making even more than one, and Dumbledore says that 
terrible damage is done to the soul every time one is made.  It's 
logical that at some point, you've got to stop.

Juli: his plan was to make 7 (including himself), and that's what he did, if 9 was the magical number, he may have done 9, but he wanted 7, that's what he did. I think he doesn't care so much about his soul that he wouldn't kill anymore to keep it safe, he's kept on killing, and he will, but he's got all the horcruxes he needs.


Now, the three big questions:

1) What are the Horcruxes, and is Harry one of them?

  -One is the diary, now destroyed
  -Two is the ring, also destroyed
  -Three is the locket, which R.A.B. planned to destroy.  Most 
    people think that this is Regulus and that the locket was the 
    one in Grimmauld Place, now held by Kreacher or Mundungus, but 
    we don't know.
 
Juli: I think RAB (whoever it is) also destroyed the locket, maybe the locket is still around, but the soul it had is long gone.

  -Four is almost certainly Hufflepuff's cup.
  -Five is a huge question mark, even to Dumbledore.  He suspects 
    it might be an unknown artifact of Ravenclaw's or Gryffindor's, 
    but that's not a lot to go on.
 
Juli: Something Ravenclaw's, I trust Dumbledore when he says the only remaining item of Gryffindor is safe. The question is, what it is????

  -Six is somewhat questionable, but Dumbledore is pretty sure it 
    is Nagini.

Juli: I'm pretty sure it's Nagini

  -I do not think Harry is a Horcrux. 
 
Juli: YEP, I agree, there isn't a chance Harry's a Horcrux, not even an unintentional (isn't there a spell to create the Horcrux? how could he cast the spell without knowing?)

  -The most believable theories I've seen on alternative objects 
    for Horcruxes are the obvious artifacts at Hogwarts: one of 
    Riddle's trophies, Gryffindor's sword, the sorting hat.  I have 
    two problems with these theories, though.  First, when would 
    Voldemort have killed someone while having any of these objects 
    available?  Second and more importantly, even the diary - which 
    Dumbledore said Voldemort was reckless with - was far better 
    protected than any of these.  Thinking of the protections on 
    the ring and the locket, I find it hard to believe that Riddle 
    would have made something out in the open into a Horcrux.
 
Juli: Even if Hogwarts meant a lot to Tom Riddle, he never commited murder there (Myrtle was killed by the basilisk, not by Tom), I'm sure when he returned to ask for a job Dumbledore kept an eye on him from the moment he entered Hogwarts.

   -"Dumbledore's shrewd ideas usually turn out to be accurate 
    (Lupin, OP5)."  
 
Juli: JKR also said pretty much the same thing in the inteview with TLC and MN

In this case, I've heard many excellent suggestions from others 
regarding places important to Voldemort:
  -Somewhere in Hogwarts.  I'm sure this led to the speculation 
    about the trophies and such, but I think it's much more likely 
    it would be hidden someplace like the Chamber of Secrets.  
    Likelihood: Very high
 
Juli: I don't think so, the CoS was about his first Horcrux, the Diary, he wouldn't put 2 of them in the same place. I know the diary wasn't in the CoS, but it showed how to get there, so if anyone found it then he/she would also get the Horcrux? don't think so

  -The Riddle house.  We already know it's important to him, and he 
    did store one in his mother's house.  Likelihood: Very high
 
Juli: I agree with you there, I think he may still use that old house as his headquarters, so Nagini could still be there. Of course it would be protected with a zillion charms (like 12GP)

  -The orphanage.  Seems like a logical place, but  harder to do.  
    Likelihood: Medium

Juli: I think the likehood is VERY LOW, he hated that place, why would he return there?
 
  -Borgin and Burke's.  Also more difficult, and probably not as 
    imporant to Riddle.  Likelihood: Medium

Juli: Low. He only worked there to get his hands on the treasures.
 
  -A safe at Gringott's.  Doesn't really fit the criteria we've 
    seen so far.  Likelihood: Low
  -Azkaban.  Why?  Likelihood: Very Low
  -That was all of the places I noticed - any other ideas?

Juli: Unfortunately I don't have many ideas, maybe Knockturn alley? I don't know.

3) Finally, When were the Horcruxes created, and who was killed in 
the process?

Juli:
Ring: Morfin Gaunt
Locket: The Riddle family (dad, grand parents)
Nagini: the old man (the gardener at the Riddle house)
The others? who knows!
 

The only people Voldemort has certainly killed are: Lily, James, 
Frank Bryce, and Dorcas Meadowes.  So it's certainly frivolous to 
make any new conjectures based on that.
 
Juli: who's Dorcas Meadowes? I don't remember him

PS. nice summary!!


Juli
Aol: jlnbtr
Yahoo: jlnbtr
MSN: julibotero at msn.com
http://360.yahoo.com/jlnbtr


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