Dumbledore and Unforgivables (was Re: Ghouls and Inferni)

[Rebecca Hoskins]

No: HPFGUIDX 136455

Houyhnhnm102 wrote:
 Sacrificing himself (only if it cannot
> be avoided) to save Draco is a blow against Voldemort in a manner
> analogous to the way in which Voldemort's curse rebounded on him
> because of Lily's willingness to sacrifice herself for Harry.

I strongly suspect that Dumbledore's sacrifice will indeed become a 
blow to Voldemort, but I disagree that it be be due to the sort of 
protection that Lily left upon Harry. If it was that easy to protect 
someone by dying I feel it would be much more common (and remember it 
was rare enough that Voldemort was unaware of it). Lily was given a 
direct choice " I am going to kill Harry, stand aside and you shall 
live, if you stay there you shall die" sort of thing. Whereas 
Dumbledore's losing his wand because he stunned Harry instead of 
protecting himself (which I don't buy for a moment, incidentally - 
Dumbledore, even greatly weakened, would be more than able to do
both) 
does not strike me as being the same sort of situation.
I believe that Dumbledore's death will be more like a 'Ben Kenobi' 
sacrifice, more of a "Strike me down Darth and I shall become more 
powerful than you could ever imagine" sort of thing. I am certain
that 
Dumbledore will still, somehow find a way to aid Harry, whether its
his 
spirit, his essence or his memories in the pensieve, I can't imagine 
for a moment that we've seen the last of him.


> BTW, Dumbledore says "By an act of evil--the supreme act of evil. 
By
> committing murder.  Killing rips the soul apart."  He does not say
by
> the use of an AK and he specifies murder.  (We don't have to get in
to
> euthanasia to find an example of killing which would not be murder. 
> One could kill in self defense or by accident)  Dumbledore orders
> Harry to feed him what he suspects may be a lethal, though slow
> acting, poison.  Is he thereby ordering Harry to tear his soul?


It's a good theory, but Dumbledore tells Harry how Voldemort fails to 
apprectiate the strength of a whole, uninjured soul; 
"...He was in such a hurry to mutilate his own soul, he never paused
to 
understand the incomparable power of a soul that is untarnished and 
whole." HBP p478 UK edition.
So I doubt very much that Dumbledore would risk Harry's soul becoming 
mutilated too.

What did strike me upon a second reading was the similarity that JKR 
used when describing Harry's reaction to having to forcefeed 
Dumbledore, and Snape's expression just prior to murdering Dumbledore;

"Hating himself, repulsed by what he was doing, harry forced the
goblet 
back towards Dumbldore's mouth and tipped it..." p534

"Snape gazed for a moment at Dumbledore, and there was revulsion and 
hatred etched into the harsh lines of his face." p556 HBP

It struck me that the expression on Snape's face as he killed 
Dumbledore was the same as the feelings that harry had when he gave
the 
drink to Dumbeldore. I know I'm not the first to suggest this, but it 
did seem to be another indicator that Snape might have been acting 
under Dumbledore's orders.


Rebecca