parental roles in HP books - Molly (long)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 136620

> >>Betsy Hp:
> Speaking as someone who loaths Molly Weasley and her methods of 
> mothering, I think her children are a *perfect* example of how    
> she's *not* a good mother.
  
> >>Juli: 
> Are you joking? or it it sirious?
> <snip> 

Betsy Hp:
I'm serious.  Molly bugs the heck out of me.  And I don't see the 
Weasleys as an "ideal family".  I've seen Norman Rockwell pictures.  
The Weasleys ain't it.  Because, yes, people get jobs out of the 
country all the time.  And especially as wizards one would think 
it'd be easy for the two oldest boys to pop home every now and again 
for a family get together.  But they don't.  Bill comes home because 
of the war.  Charlie comes home for tickets to the Quidditch World 
Cup.

Percy, more overtly (I think because Percy, of all the Weasley 
children, is excruciatingly honest, often to his own detriment), 
full out left his family behind.

> >>Elizabeth:
> <snip>
> Truthfully, of the Weasely children he is the most spoiled and it
> shows. Molly did dote on him. Perhaps he's angry with her for not
> toughening him a bit more.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
If Percy's angry at Molly for anything, I imagine it's because he 
followed her instructions exactly and it led him to a childhood of 
being mocked and ganged up on by the twins, and an adulthood of 
being mocked and condecedended to by his father (from Percy's POV 
anyway).  Molly didn't spoil Percy.  She used him as a weapon 
against the twins.  Unfortunately, Percy wasn't strong enough for 
the task she set him up for, and she lost him over it.

Ron, quite wisely, chose not to follow Percy's path.  And though 
he's certainly not a favorite of the twins, by following their lead 
instead of his mother's he was never attacked as viciously by the 
twins as Percy was (though Ron was definitely attacked).  Molly 
certainly punished Ron for choosing the twins over her.  He became 
her invisible son.  Always getting the crappiest of the Weasley 
sweaters, sent to a formal in ridiculous dress robes that Molly 
doesn't even *attempt* to alter.  But, since Molly's instructions 
really aren't that great to begin with (see Percy) Ron was able to 
forge his own way.  He definitely bought into his mother's sense of 
his worthlessness (quidditch, apparating, dating, etc.) but 
fortunately Hermione and Harry have been incredibly good at shoring 
up his self-esteem.

> >>Betsy Hp:  
> >Ginny is an accomplished liar and has a rather cruel temper when 
> >she's pushed.

> >>Juli: 
> When you were 15 didn't you lie to your mom? I did, and a lot.    
> When is she cruel? when she casts a bat-boggers or whatever on    
> someone? it's not cruel it's funny, if she was crucioing everyone, 
> that would be cruel.

Betsy Hp:
Oh sure, I lied to my mom.  But she saw right through it.  Ginny is 
quite good at it.  But honestly, it's her cruelty that I think is 
most Weasley inspired.  (I think this may be more a twins thing -- 
Ginny is definitely their girl in a way that Ron was never their 
boy.)  For one, her cruelty is generally reserved for Ron (the twins 
choice of punching bag after Percy).  Though Percy definitely came 
in for some underhanded hits.  Ginny lets slip to the twins that he 
has a girlfriend in PS/SS.  And frankly, her "oh dear, don't tease 
him, please" rang a bit false to me.  How long has she been living 
with the twins again? 

But when Ginny gets mad, Ron is usually the one to pay.  The way she 
trips him when he was about to kiss Fluer good-bye was unkind.  Her 
words to him in the corridor when he catches her kissing Dean were 
certainly cruel, and said to hurt.  Of course, I'm not saying 
Ginny's this evil little girl who should be stopped.  The 
interaction in the corridor is pretty realistic of a fight between 
siblings.  I'm just saying that she's not perfect.  She's not 
ideal.  And I think her flaws have come about because the Weasley 
family is not perfect and not ideal.

> >>Betsy Hp:
> >The twins hold a special place, because I think they are most 
> >Molly's boys.  
> <snip>

> >>Juli: 
> Destruction? What animal did they kill at age 7?
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Ron's puffskein.  I believe this happened when Ron was five, but I 
could be mistaken.  (I can find the revelent quote in FB&WTFT, but 
not in HBP where I believe more details are given.)  Fred apparently 
used Ron's puffskein for bludger practice.  Which means, 
effectively, that Fred hit a small furry animal with a cricket bat 
until it was dead.  Not very pleasant, IMO.  

> >>Julie:
> Which classmate they tried to kill? Montasgue (sp?), they didn't  
> try to kill him, they just shoved him into a cabinet, and it was  
> an act of self-defense.

Betsy Hp:
Self defense?  Montague was trying to take house points from them 
and they pitched him into the Vanishing Cabinet.  What exactly were 
they defending?  When Hermione expresses shock, they're rather cold-
blooded about the whole thing.

"Not until Montague reappears, and that could take weeks, I dunno 
where we sent him," said Fred coolly. (OotP scholastic p.627)

As it turns out, they sent him into a sort of limbo that Montague 
nearly died escaping.  "In the end, he managed to Apparate out, even 
though he'd never passed his test.  He nearly died doing it." (HBP 
scholastic p.587)  Which sounds to me like Montague was forced into 
using the wild magic wizards are able to call on when in extreme 
danger or in a high emotional state.

The twins have never expressed any sort of remorse, and they never 
worried when Montague didn't reappear.  And, IIRC, they don't worry 
when Montague does reappear in a rather bad state.  It doesn't speak 
too highly of them, frankly.

> >>Julie:
>  What have they done to Ron? and to Percy? They've made a few     
> jokes on them, so what, my brother used to play pranks on me all   
> the time, and I don't hold it against him.

Betsy Hp:
Did your brother play pranks on you at your workplace?  Because, 
yes, siblings will tease each other, but some areas of your life 
should be off limits.  The twins don't seem to have any limits.  
Especially when it comes to Percy.  Did your brother ever bludgeon a 
pet of yours to death?  Did he ever play a prank that if successful 
could have well led to your death? (I'm refering to the Unbreakable 
Vow here.)  I'd also point out that with the twins it was always two 
against one.  And they honestly don't seem to care if someone gets 
hurt.  Even killed.  As long as they get a laugh then it's all good, 
and I think there's something really wrong with that sort of 
attitude.

Frankly, I place the blame for the twins' attitude squarely on their 
parents.  Arthur, for some reason, checked out of his family.  He 
put all of his effort into his work and his hobby.  And since 
Molly's method of discipline is more "DO AS I SAY!", than "this is 
wrong and here's why" it's no wonder that the twins have such a 
horrible sense of responsiblity.  (A perfect illustration of this, 
IMO, is the different parental reactions, and the twin's responses, 
after their attack on Dudley in GoF.)

> >>Betsy Hp: 
> >As to Molly's relationship with Arthur, their marriage doesn't   
> seem all that great, IMO.
> <snip>
 
> >>Juli: 
> what's wrong with their relationship? So Molly is the 'boss', she 
> sets the rules, it doesn't seem wrong.

Betsy Hp:
Actually, I think that's *exactly* what's wrong with the Weasley 
family as a whole.  Molly is too judgmental and small-minded to be 
the boss.  Obviously Arthur hates it, that's why he's hardly ever 
home.

> >>Julie:
> Of course he's working all day, he's got a family to support, I   
> would complain if he was letting his kids starve! 

Betsy Hp:
He works all night too.  And that's a problem.

> >>Julie:
> He plays with muggle things, it's a healthy hobby.

Betsy Hp:
One that Molly despises, unfortunately, and so one he's not able to 
include any of his family members in.  It may have done his kids 
some good if they were included in some of his tinkering.  (Though I 
sometimes get the feeling that the Weasely children don't respect 
their father all that much.)

>>Julie:
> He disciplines Fred and George, but their personality is like that 
> he can't change it, they are pranksters, that's who they are.

Betsy Hp:
The twins are bit darker than the average prankster.  Too many of 
their victims end up in the hospital wing, IMO. (Christ, Ron may 
have ended up raping Romilda Vane if Harry hadn't been quick on his 
feet there, and all thanks to his brothers.)  And they feel no 
remorse for it.  Which is a bad sign.  And frankly, I think it's 
because Arthur *wasn't* disciplining them, their mother was.

> >>Elizabeth:
> They've been married twenty-plus years. The honeymoon phase ended
> some time ago. They seem to have a solid friendship and a good
> working relationship, though.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Are they friends?  What Arthur cares deeply about Molly thinks as so 
much nonsense.  It was fairly obvious, IMO, through Molly's talk 
with Harry when he first arrived at the Burrow that Arthur wasn't 
all that thrilled with his promotion.  But Molly *loves* it.  And 
when they were listening to the Christmas music it seemed fairly 
obvious, again IMO, that Arthur was merely gritting his teeth with 
the rest of the family.  He didn't seem all that interested in the 
walk down memory lane that Molly was taking.

I don't think Arthur despises Molly, or anything, but I don't think 
their marriage is all that great.  I think Arthur is being noble.  
(Actually I think they may well mirror the Bennetts from 
Austen's "Pride & Prejudice")

> >>Juli: 
> Why is it wrong to let the kids know there isn't a lot of money?

Betsy Hp:
It's not.  But is it normal to show your kids (and their friends!) 
the bank balance?  That scene just bothered me.
 
> >>Juli: 
> OMG, are you sirious? ESE!Molly? NO WAY.

Betsy Hp:
I'm serious when I say I doubt Molly is ESE. <g>  Actually, if any 
of the Weasleys are going to turn out ESE, my money is on the 
twins.  Of the family the twins are the most ruthless, and it was 
interesting to me that it was their products (and their oh so funny 
prank) that enabled Death Eaters to get into Hogwarts (and nearly 
kill their brother).  However, I don't feel like I've got a good 
read on how JKR sees the twins.  Does she see them as just harmless 
pranksters, albeit ones that skate awfully close to a body count?  
Or is she foreshadowing something a bit more sinister?  Only book 7 
will tell.

Betsy Hp