anti Weasleys under Imperius Curse? was parental roles in HP

[susanmcgee48176]

No: HPFGUIDX 136651

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "horridporrid03" 
<horridporrid03 at y...> wrote:
> > >>Betsy Hp:
> > Speaking as someone who loaths Molly Weasley and her methods of 
> > mothering, I think her children are a *perfect* example of how    
> > she's *not* a good mother.
>   
> > >>Juli: 
> > Are you joking? or it it sirious?
> > <snip> 
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> I'm serious. 

Susan says: Betsy, I am very worried about you. I think Lucius Malfoy 
has put you under the Imperius Curse (he hates those blood 
traitors)..or wait! maybe it's Delores Umbridge! She'd love to 
promote Percy and destroy Arthur, and she surely has a great big 
grudge against Fred and George for their wonderful resistance to her 
reign of Hogwarts tyranny!


Betsy:
 Molly bugs the heck out of me.  And I don't see the 
> Weasleys as an "ideal family".  I've seen Norman Rockwell 
pictures.  
> The Weasleys ain't it.  snip........> 
> Percy, more overtly (I think because Percy, of all the Weasley 
> children, is excruciatingly honest, often to his own detriment), 
> full out left his family behind.

*****

> 
>> 
> Betsy Hp:
> If Percy's angry at Molly for anything, I imagine it's because he 
> followed her instructions exactly and it led him to a childhood of 
> being mocked and ganged up on by the twins, and an adulthood of 
> being mocked and condecedended to by his father (from Percy's POV 
> anyway).  Molly didn't spoil Percy.  She used him as a weapon 
> against the twins.  Unfortunately, Percy wasn't strong enough for 
> the task she set him up for, and she lost him over it.

???????? Huh? Surely, Molly would like Fred and George to be more 
like Percy, but she also references Bill and Charley as role models 
for Ron....


> 
> Ron, quite wisely, chose not to follow Percy's path.  And though 
> he's certainly not a favorite of the twins, by following their lead 
> instead of his mother's he was never attacked as viciously by the 
> twins as Percy was (though Ron was definitely attacked). 

????? Percy was terribly, terribly treated by Fred and George??? Are 
you kidding???? I think Percy is judgmental, self-important, 
ambitious, pompous and a lickspittle? More importantly, he's ready to 
sacrifice his parents to his own career, and be alienated from his 
family? Do you think it's nice to taunt his father about not making 
money? Lots of folks choose to do something that think is valuable 
that is not terribly lucrative... Percy is the one who attacks Arthur 
for sticking with DD and believing HARRY...Do you remember Fred and 
George insisting that Percy join them at the feast -- because 
Christmas is a time for family?
Percy is not a totally evil character, of course, but if ANYone in 
the family has done terrible things it's Percy.

Let's remember his letter to Ron in the order of the Phoenix...how he 
suggests that Harry is violent and unbalanced, how he says that 
Delores Umbridge is a "delightful woman?"!!!!?????@#$%^ Look at his 
behavior at Harry's trial -- how he laughs at Fudge's cruel comments, 
and ignores his father AND Harry...


I think Fred and George's pricking of Percy's pomposity is hilarious. 
I love gadflies. Putting little flags on the ministry of car that say 
HB.... asking if Crouch has stopped calling Percy Weatherby (remember 
that disgustingly sycophantic way he was was bowing so low he was 
crouching over? Putting dragon dung in his inbox? 

I love their swamp. I love Fred and George organizing resistance to 
Delores Umbridge. I love how they cooperate with Harry to buy Ron new 
dress robes. They are absolutely hilarious....

 Molly 
> certainly punished Ron for choosing the twins over her.  He became 
> her invisible son.  Always getting the crappiest of the Weasley 
> sweaters, sent to a formal in ridiculous dress robes that Molly 
> doesn't even *attempt* to alter.

Damn her! She has six kids and she doesn't have time to alter dress 
robes. Probably Arthur's shirts have ring around the collar, too! 

  > 
> > >>Betsy Hp:  
> > >Ginny is an accomplished liar and has a rather cruel temper when 
> > >she's pushed.
> 
So now kids who lie to their parents are bad? I guess everyone on 
this list will have to consign their souls to hell.
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> Oh sure, I lied to my mom.  But she saw right through it.  Ginny is 
> quite good at it. 

So it's her COMPETENCE at lying that you object to, not the lying 
itself..it's okay to be a CLUMSY liar?

 But honestly, it's her cruelty snip  Though Percy definitely came 
> in for some underhanded hits.  Ginny lets slip to the twins that he 
> has a girlfriend in PS/SS.  And frankly, her "oh dear, don't tease 
> him, please" rang a bit false to me.  How long has she been living 
> with the twins again? 

Susan says: I really object to your stating your version of the books 
as fact. Ginny says "don't tease him, please". I saw that as sincere, 
and I'm willing to give Ginny a break given that she was just 
possessed by LV... but you have decided (based on no evidence that I 
can see), that it was false, therefore it is "cruel". Could all the 
people who teased their siblings about girlfriends and boyfriends 
raise their hands? Cruel, cruel...

> 
> SNIP  And I think her flaws have come about because the Weasley 
> family is not perfect and not ideal.


Susan says: Well of course no family is perfect. All people have 
flaws. Good people make mistakes. No individual is perfect.

So Ginny has flaws because of her parents/family, in your opinion? 
None of her good points are because of her parents/family?

Personally, I think Molly and Arthur are great parents, and it's a 
great, loving, doing the best they can family.....They failed with 
Percy and I feel sorry for them. But they're doing well with the 
other kids....and of course parental influence is one factor, but not 
the overriding factor in a person's development. At some point, kids 
make their own choices.
 
SNIP


> > >>Betsy Hp: 
> > >As to Molly's relationship with Arthur, their marriage doesn't   
> > seem all that great, IMO.
> > <snip>
>  
> > >>Juli: 
> > what's wrong with their relationship? So Molly is the 'boss', she 
> > sets the rules, it doesn't seem wrong.
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> Actually, I think that's *exactly* what's wrong with the Weasley 
> family as a whole.  Molly is too judgmental and small-minded to be 
> the boss.  Obviously Arthur hates it, that's why he's hardly ever 
> home.

Susan: Again, I don't think Arthur hates Molly or his home or his 
family. It's not obvious to me. You state your opinion as fact and go 
from there. Arthur is home quite a bit for someone who has a very 
demanding job. Whenever there's a crisis at Hogwarts, he's 
immediately there. How loved he is is "obvious" when he's in the 
hospital and is visited by Molly and the children.


> 
> > >>Julie:
> > Of course he's working all day, he's got a family to support, I   
> > would complain if he was letting his kids starve! 
> 
> snip> 
> Betsy Hp:
> One that Molly despises, unfortunately, and so one he's not able to 
> include any of his family members in.  It may have done his kids 
> some good if they were included in some of his tinkering.  (Though 
I > sometimes get the feeling that the Weasely children don't respect 
> their father all that much.)


Susan says: Again, I think the Weasley children love and respect 
their father (with the exception of Percy) They tease him....but 
that's the sign of a healthy child/parent relationship...I do not 
agree with your feeling.

> 
> >>Julie:
> > He disciplines Fred and George, but their personality is like 
that 
> > he can't change it, they are pranksters, that's who they are.
> 

> Betsy Hp:
> The twins are bit darker than the average prankster.  Too many of 
> their victims end up in the hospital wing, IMO. (Christ, Ron may 
> have ended up raping Romilda Vane if Harry hadn't been quick on his 
> feet there, and all thanks to his brothers.)

Susan says: So you're blaming Fred and George because ROMILDA VANE 
gave Harry a love potion and Ron ended up getting it accidentally? 
(This is why I think you're under the Imperius Curse) It was ROMILDA 
who was trying to coerce Harry into asking her to the party....
Besides...a love potion doesn't necessariy lead to rape..it leads to 
obsessive love and attraction...rape is a choice that is made, not 
out of sexual attraction or love.....it's a decision to use sex to 
humiliate and degrade another person. There is no evidence that Ron 
would have gone from being entranced with Romilda into forcing her 
into sex....


 > > <snip>
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> Are they friends?  What Arthur cares deeply about Molly thinks as 
so 
> much nonsense.  It was fairly obvious, IMO, through Molly's talk 
> with Harry when he first arrived at the Burrow that Arthur wasn't 
> all that thrilled with his promotion.  But Molly *loves* it.  And 
> when they were listening to the Christmas music it seemed fairly 
> obvious, again IMO, that Arthur was merely gritting his teeth with 
> the rest of the family.  He didn't seem all that interested in the 
> walk down memory lane that Molly was taking.
> 
> I don't think Arthur despises Molly, or anything, but I don't think 
> their marriage is all that great.  I think Arthur is being noble.  
> (Actually I think they may well mirror the Bennetts from 
> Austen's "Pride & Prejudice")
> 
> > >>Juli: 
> > Why is it wrong to let the kids know there isn't a lot of money?
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> It's not.  But is it normal to show your kids (and their friends!) 
> the bank balance?  That scene just bothered me.

Susan says: Betsy, it's okay for you to be bothered by it. You're 
entitled to your own personal issues about money. My parents thought 
it shameful to discuss money in front of me, too. But I have found 
out that sharing a bank account balance with kids, talking with them 
about being thrifty, earning money, saving money. etc. is often a 
good option, and one many families embrace. This does not make Molly 
abnormal, or worse a bad mother..(as you said in your first post 
about this)


Susan McGee
If you'd like to join Harry Potter for Grownups over 50, please email 
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