Finding the Cave

[Jen Reese]

No: HPFGUIDX 136685

> Saraquel:
> Me too, Jen. The whole cave incident is a mystery to me.  There 
are 
> so many questions and too many possible scenarios.  But how anyone 
> knew about the cave is really the most difficult one to come up 
with 
> an explanation for.  I've posted a few ideas about the cave, most 
> recently, it came up in my "slughorn – hiding more than meets the 
> eye" post 136478.

Jen: I read your post this morning Saraquel, in fact it made me 
think about the improbability of someone finding the cave. I'm still 
letting my thoughts on Slughorn percolate, because I didn't notice 
much about him while reading. Well, except he's a bit of a coward 
<g>. But more on that in another post.

>Saraquel: 
> I read through all your options, and really thought you covered it 
> very well.  But even so, to me, none of them are quite 
> satisfactory, which I think you think too (correct me if I'm
> wrong).

Jen: That's the problem! None of my suggestions further the story or 
explain who would be willing to die to take out *one* of Voldemort's 
Horcruxes. 

Saraquel:
> Three other explanations which are not entirely satisfactory
> either really need to be addressed, however. They are:
> 
> 1) Voldemort planted the locket
> 2) Dumbledore planted the locket
> 3) The locket Harry found at Dumbledore's side was not the locket 
> which came from the cave.  
> 
> If any of these are true, we do not need to explain how, a young
> and apparently unimpressive wizard (no-one has ever mentioned him
> except Sirius) managed to 1) find the cave and 2) find how to get
> to the centre of the lake and steal the Horcrux.  The problem with
> this ideas, is finding any justification for them.  

Jen: (I'm snipping for brevity here, but anyone reading my post 
ought to take a look upthread at Saraquel's explanations).

I can't accept that Regulus, whatever his abilities, with or without 
helpers, was the one who stole the locket!! Even Slughorn, who likes 
to improve his status by talking up his trophy students, doesn't ooh 
and aah over Regulus. Sirius was a 'talented boy' but all Slughorn 
cares about is having a matched set of Black brothers in his house 
to brag on, and hopefully, as an entree to more gifts from Mother 
Black! 

That's really the basis of all my wondering--it can't be Regulus. 
Not much to go on. ;)

Saraquel:
> 1) Voldemort planted the locket: Well he might of planted it as a 
> decoy for anyone who cottoned on to his Horcruxes.  Lure them to a 
> place they would think was important to him, then get them to join 
> the inferi army and pretend RAB got there first.  

Jen: Actually, I like this one. Except Voldemort would enjoy taking 
credit right before the interloper got dragged down in the lake to 
join the Inferi. So no explanation for RAB. 

> 2) Dumbledore planted the locket. Funnily enough, this one did
> occur to me really early on.  There was and still is, something
> that I can't put my finger on, about the cave scene being not
> quite right.  

Jen: Like it's overdone maybe? And not as clever as it could be? 
Those thoughts ocurred to me. Voldemort really messed up quite a few 
simple protections, like the boat. But then Dumbledore spent half 
the book explaining the psychology of Voldemort to Harry and it fits 
that Voldemort would be the type to overlook the very obvious in 
order to capitalize on his obsessions. Like planning the boat to 
capsize only if the 'weight' of magical ability drowns it. That's 
such a Voldemort thing to do, given his burning desire to be 
the 'greatest socerer'. 

Saraquel:
> Although DD felt sure that he wouldn't die immediately, he 
> pretty well knew he was going to be incapacitated and that there 
> could be no guarantee that they would get out of the cave alive.  
> Therefore, this could have been the last moment he was lucidly
> with Harry, *ever*.  There was no apparent time pressure, nothing
> was going to kick off if DD didn't drink the potion immediately,
> yet he almost hurried into doing it.  He didn't take stock, or use
> that time to say any famous last words, or impart important 
> information to Harry.  If he suspected he was going to die, which 
> let's face it, he should have taken into account – otherwise, he's
> supremely arrogant – then wouldn't he have wanted to pass on
> everything he knew?  

Jen: Maybe it's supreme confidence in his abilities and the people 
he surrounds himself with? Once DD got his promise from Harry, he 
knows Harry won't break his word. That's not something Harry does. 
And Dumbledore also trusts Harry's abilites to get them home--he's 
proven himself over and over. And I truly belive Dumbledore expected 
Severus would patch him up once he got back to Hogwarts because 
that's what *Severus* does. He didn't account for the DE's at 
Hogwarts in his plan, however. I think if anything, Dumbledore's 
unwavering trust was at the heart of his belief they would make it 
out alive.

Saraquel:
> Or was it just that JKR didn't want to give future bits of the 
> plot away ;-) 

Jen: Yes, that too ;).

Saraquel:
> However, there is plenty of stuff to the contrary to imply that DD 
> genuinely believed that this was Voldemort's hiding place.  For 
> instance, why if it was just a training exercise, would he have
> made a point of adding the touch about the crudity of the 
> archway.  Also, if DD had set it up as a training exercise, what 
> was in the potion?  It definitely had an effect.  Also, there is
> no way that DD would use inferi in any way whatsoever.

Jen: We do have some foreshadowing with the Slughorn scene that 
magic can be used to obscure the truth. It *could* be the cave scene 
where we see magic being used to obscure, but that would be 
Voldemort playing games, not DD. Dumbledore has a 'style' of magic 
same as he pointed out about Voldemort. I don't think wizards trying 
to imitate another's style do very well with it, just as we saw with 
Slughorn. He was trying to imitate a DE scenario but forgot the most 
important part, the Dark Mark! It's certainly one of the first 
things the DE's did after entering Hogwarts (as a ruse, but still-- 
No DE would forget the Dark Mark).

Saraquel:
> 3) The locket Harry found is not the locket which came from the 
> cave.  Now, there is some sort of case that can be made for this.
> I posted on this very early on and then decided that it was too
> off the wall.  But the original post is 132910, which basically
> says that DD and Harry recovered the real Horcrux!Locket from the
> cave, but Aberforth planted the Fake!Locket beside Dumbledore's
> body for Harry to find.  <snipping>
> If, as we are speculating, that the Horcrux!Locket was in the
> cave, then what is my explanation for Aberforth planting the fake!
> locket.  Well the justification for Aberforth having the locket
> from Grimauld Place, which in this scenario, is *not* the Horcrux!
> locket, but the Fake!Locket.....

Jen: OK, I think I'm getting this one. So the locket they found in 
the cave was real, but the locket beside DD was fake. It *is* 
possible Aberforth followed DD and Harry back to Hogwarts, or was 
already there, drawn by the Dark Mark. But it's more likely he 
followed, because DD dismantled the protections as he flew in. And 
there's even a motivation--Aberforth would know Harry would find it 
difficult to destroy the real Horcrux, he's just not as powerful as 
a seasoned wizard in that particular way (dealing with curses and 
hexes and the like). But that wouldn't explain the fake note because 
Harry would continue on a wild goose chase to find the real Locket!
Horcrux and waste his time.

I don't know, I'm going to think on this one more. I'm tired now, 
too! Need a few ibuprofen.
Jen