Paradox of Time Travel in PoA - Before & After

[Sandra Collins]

No: HPFGUIDX 136748

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "meltowne" 
<meltowne at y...> wrote:
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Sandra Collins" 
> <sandra87b at y...> wrote:
> >... If Harry was saving someone else's life, ie if only Sirius 
> > was there being attacked and Harry saves him with a 
Patronus, 
> > then I think it's okay (for that particular section). I don't 
> > understand why so many people can't see this very simple, 
but 
> > very large, plot hole. You can't save yourself from being killed, 
> if 
> > the only reason you survive is because a 'post-death' you 
went 
> > back! It makes my head spin that not only was it not dealt 
with by 
> > an editor, but it also made it onto film!
> 
> I don't block it out, but it is fixed by a matter of perspective.  
> The books are written as a recollection of what happened 
when Harry 
> was school aged.  They are written as though being told by 
someone 
> who was told about the events after the fact by Harry.  Most of 
the 
> events are influenced by Harry's percention of what happens, 
with few 
> exceptions (roughly one chapter per book).
> 
> They are not really written as though we are there watching 
events 
> unfold.  Thus, the storry teller is telling us what Harry 
remembers 
> of those events.  Even if they happened differently the first time 
> around, Harry's memory of them will always be influenced by 
what he 
> knows of the resolution.  Maybe someone else did save him 
the first 
> time around (or maybe something else entirely happened), but 
due to 
> his own influence on the past, He and Sirius were saved.  And 
it is 
> important that someone saved Sirius as well, because 
otherwise there 
> would STILL be no reason to go back to save Sirius from the 
tower, 
> because he wouldn't have been there, but dead beside the 
lake!
> 
> Maybe H&H did or didn't change events of the past, but but 
whatever 
> happened, Harry's recollection of what happened the first time 
must 
> be a memory of the result.  Any changes occur to his memory 
of the 
> event as well as to the event itself.


Sandra writes:

Hi there!
JKR must love readers with that opinion - it excuses a complete 
howler of a plot-wreck! To simply step around events which 
cannot addup, by saying they're just memories being re-told is to 
excuse any number of gaping holes the author misses, I would 
say. It's just plain and simple - if Harry was subjected to a 
Dementor attack, he would suffer greatly asa result whether by 
death or serious trauma. Instead, he saves himself. Nay, nay 
and thrice nay! Even if you had a really good calculator, that 
would never add up.
To give yet another example (how many is it going to take?)
How about if Darth Vader and Obi Wan are having their duel in 
Star Wars 4 like they did, and just before Obi gets killed, Darth is 
thrown to one side by a mysterious Jedi Mind Trick from a 
mysterious person.. who turns out to be Obi Wan from 2 hours in 
the future who only got there because he survived the duel!! It 
doesn't work, it's a cock-up, an enormous oversight, a lack of 
clear thinking, a great big mistake, a twist too far, and a major 
loophole.

Sandra