Finding the Cave

[saraquel_omphale]

No: HPFGUIDX 136802


"Jen Reese" <stevejjen at e...> wrote:
> Just saw your post before sending this Seraquel--we might be going 
> in different directions, but all of it will lead somewhere, 
right?!?

Saraquel:
Here have my last blowup armband to keep your hope afloat! 

Jen:
> But the potion, to me the potion sealed the deal for the cave 
scene 
> being exactly what we see--a Voldemort creation, located by 
someone 
> prior to DD & Harry, and meant to kill and forever conceal any 
> persons skilled (and lucky***) enough to find the cave.
> 
> That scene with DD demanding Harry promise to do whatever it takes 
> to get the locket, including tipping the potion into 
his 'protesting 
> mouth', then watching Harry have to do so---that scene was 
> excruciating for me. I feel 100% certain DD did not plan that as a 
> training exercise or that he knew to expect the potion.
>
Saraquel:
Yes Jen, I do agree.  The potion does seem to be a Voldemort 
special.  However, there are other problems with the training 
exercise scenario. (Did you pick up Valky's contribution to how RAB 
found out about the cave and my response?)  But I actually think 
that DD would go that far in a training exercise, in fact he would 
set up the exercise specifically to do that. Harry is going to have 
to be that tough.
 
 Jen:
> Looking at it that way, there really is a possibility the locket 
was 
> switched from the start. Voldemort had someone with him to assist 
> making the potion, perhaps, and whether or not that person was 
RAB, 
> the Fake!Locket with the note was the one making it into the basin 
> (although I still have a very hard time thinking 1) Voldemort 
would 
> allow anyone to help him and 2) He wouldn't see the locket being 
> replaced).

Saraquel:
Oh Jen, I'd love this to be right, I really would, but..... I'm 
afraid I think your own objections state the case against so 
eloquently!


> 
> The potion itself. Bleh. I've looked through every section I can 
> think of for an ingredient, a creature, *something* to explain the 
> potion. <snip> 
> Or Merrylinks had a good idea in post #135371, that the potion 
makes 
> you see the future, specifically your own death. That's a very 
> Voldemortian idea, isn't it? He expects everyone should fear death 
> as much as he does.

A while ago I posted something on the potion, then reposted part of 
it again in answer to one of Cathy's posts.  So I'll add it here, 
but there may well be people who have seen this before – please feel 
free to skip it!! And I promise, really, this is the last time I'll 
put it in one of my posts, but it does contain some useful stuff and 
a starting point for speculation. 

To me the complexities of the cave scene are such a key. There is
the whole question of whose potion is it, are there memories stored
in it, and what is happening to DD when he drinks it. I've got
quite a few ideas about the potion, and have posted on this topic
before, but my ideas change as I try to unravel its complexity.
But, it is possible to make one theory about DDs ramblings if we
assume that the potion DD takes is the one that he thinks he is
going to take. (which in no way accounts for the - the original
potion has been drunk by RAB and it is the replacement that DD is
drinking - possibility. Unless you take into the account Ron's Felix
Felicis experience of experiencing what he thought he ought to
experience after taking that potion. You see what I mean about
complexities!)

All quotes from UK ED
Before he drinks the potion DD says to Harry:
Ch 26, p532 "I should have said, he would not want immediately to
kill the person who reached this island, <snip> He would want to
keep them alive long enough to find out how they managed to
penetrate so far through his defences and, most importantly of all,
why they were so intent upon emptying the basin. Do not forget that
Lord Voldemort believes that he alone knows about his Horcruxes."

So what potions would we put in to get that result?

PS Pb edition ch8 p103 "For your information Potter, asphodel and
wormwood make a sleeping potion so powerful it is known as the
Draught of Living Death." This is also the potion which Harry made
so brilliantly in HBP using Snape's potion book. This would keep
someone alive, but leave them lying at the foot of the basin. Its
colour is the palest of pink (HBP p 181)

Veritaserum would of course ensure that they reveal their secrets.
Veritaserum is colourless and odourless (HBP ch12 p175)

There may well be another potion or potions involved here, as the
colour of the potion in the basin is emerald green and luminescent.
I'm sure that I've read of Hermione successfully making something
like this, but I can't find it. Also, blending potions, may well
not be the same as blending paint colours!! The luminescence of the
potion could also indicate memories - can you add them to potions?
and on p530 Harry says "he saw the light as coming from a stone
basin rather like the Pensieve" There is also one interesting
remark, which might well be a clue on p535 it says "Dumbledore
drank, as though it was an antidote Harry offered him
" But quite
where that leads I don't know.

If we watch the effect of the potion on DD, we see that half way
through the fourth goblet he is described: (HBP Ch26, p534) "His
face was twitching as though he were deeply asleep, but dreaming a
horrible dream."

Now, assuming that Vertaserum is in the mix and Voldemort wants to
find out DD's motives for getting the Horcrux, what do we make of
what DD is saying. Well, I too thought it could well be DD's memory
of Snape recanting. Although I was impressed by comment Digger
made in his/her post about the torture of the children.

BUT, if this is the memory of Snape's recanting, it really fits
incredibly well with the Vertaserum theory. Remember, Voldemort
wants to know why anyone would be intent on emptying the basin. Why
does DD want to get the Horcrux? He wants to make sure that Harry
survives. Why is Harry likely not to survive? Other than the fact
that there might be more Horcruxes out there, the main thing in DDs
mind is that Voldemort has chosen to believe the prophecy and acted
upon it. If he had not chosen to act upon it there would be no
problem for Harry.

Ch23 p476 "But Harry, never forget that what the prophecy says in
only significant because Voldemort made it so. <snip> Voldemort
singled you out as the person who would be most dangerous to him –
and in doing so, he made you the person who would be most dangerous
to him!"

Therefore DD reveals his true reason for trying to get the Horcrux
in the basin is tied up with the interpretation of the prophecy and
Harry's involvement. It is NOT just to try and destroy Voldemort.
Hence, his memory of the first time he learned that Voldemort was
going to act on what Snape had told him. Hope that's clear.

Saraquel
Who is battling on even though the case seems hopeless.  And who is 
now going to scrape her fiddle at The Scottish Fiddle Club.