The "row" in the forest--what Snape doesn't want to do any more (Was: Mr. Sn

[saraquel_omphale]

No: HPFGUIDX 136890

Valky wrote: I'm
> fairly well convinced that canon fully supports the hypothesis 
>>that DD
> and Snape were arguing about Snape watching over Draco. It also
> explains why DD's trail of conversation leads into the 
>resposibility
> of watching over the Slytherin House. It could be that he was 
>>implying
> there that Snape could more easily guise his shadowing of Draco in
> that responsibility, but I think, more likely, that DD was 
>reminding
> Snape it was too late in the year for him to be taken off duty as 
Head
> of House and his responsibility to investigate would remain, in 
>any case.

Saraquel: spanner in the works!  Although I think all the posters in 
this thread have made some excellent arguments, I'm afraid I'm not 
convinced of the premise that Snape and DD were arguing about Draco 
at all.  I'll come back to why I don't agree with the Draco 
explanation in a minute. First I'll speculate on what I think was 
happening here.

When I first read this passage, it struck me that Hagrid was 
desperately trying to convince Harry of a specific interpretation of 
the Snape/DD argument.  I don't think Hagrid was lying deliberately, 
I think he himself did not understand what the row had been about, 
and had explained it to himself in terms of the recent necklace 
attack. As this interpretation did not put Snape into any dubious 
light, he is pressing it on Harry in order to try and stop him from 
flying off into Snape's-up-to-no-good scenarios.  Also, we know from 
past history, that relying on anyone's interpretation of events is 
just playing with fire, as usually JKR uses someone's 'Well it's 
obviously about this ...." to lead you off in the wrong direction.  
Sorry can't think of cannon for that off hand, but there are loads 
of examples.

So what was the argument about?  Well, the suspicious bit for me is 
HBP p380 UK ed "An' then he said summat abou' Snape makin' 
investigations in his house, in Slytherin."  Now I think that could 
well be Hagrid's interpretation.  That in fact, all he heard was DD 
saying was something like "And you can start by looking in your own 
house."  It was Hagrid who added the "in Slytherin" – the fact that 
it is separated by a comma in the text, implies that it was not what 
he originally heard.  I don't know about you, but when I report 
speech, I hear  it again in my head and try and use the words that 
I've heard.  Which gets us all, finally, to the promised spanner.  I 
think DD was asking Snape to start his investigations with Wormtail, 
who is currently residing in Snape's own house.

So how can we make sense of the row: well, maybe Snape was saying – 
look, I don't want to be a spy anymore. And DD was saying, you 
promised to do it in the Hospital wing after the Triwizard 
Tournament and you can't go back now, and anyway I want you to 
investigate Nagini for me, and Wormtail is the one who was around 
Voldemort the most during that time.  I want information on the 
murder of Frank Bryce.  

So if we look at the implications of that, where does it get us.

ESG!Snape:  Snape - I'm now in it up to my neck, my life is on the 
line, I might have to kill you or die mysef, Draco isn't playing, 
actually I want out.  I'll help you with whatever you want, but I 
really don't want to go back into enemy territory.  DD - well I'm 
sorry Snape, but you really sealed your fate all those years ago 
when you joined the DEs and then came to me about Lily and James, 
you are living out the result of your choices and you have to take 
responsibility for that.  Do you think it's a bed of roses for me?  
Anyway, this is bigger than both of us, if Harry doesn't succeed, 
it's not just our lives that will be on the line.  

Or: the old argument of "DD, you take too much for granted in asking 
me to kill you. I don't want to do it any more."  "Look Snape, it's 
either me or you, and

." Add your own favourite reason here!!

The fact that Snape is actually having a big row with DD does 
indicate to me that he might well be on the side of good.  If Snape 
were ESE! It would be a big risk to have an all out row, after he 
had so well crafted his trust with DD.  It would take a *supremely* 
confident person to enter into conflict with someone they are 
deceiving.  Disagreements, yes, an absolute necessity in the 
deception, but all out rows and `disobedience' – hmmmm.  I don't 
think over-confidence is one of Snape's faults.  He's very, very 
measured.  However, I'm still on the fence about Snape's 
allegiances.  I still need more time to rethink things in light of 
HBP, although an evil Snape on the side of good is probably where 
I'll come down in the end. Though how I'll explain dead DD with that 
one remains to be seen.

ESE!Snape: Much the same as above, but, different motives: Don't 
have to report Voldemort's goings on any more.  Don't have to inform 
you about Nagini, whom I suspect is very important to Voldemort, and 
whom I suspect may even be a Horcrux. (See the famous "all you DEs 
know what I did to make myself immortal" speech in the graveyard 
scene of GoF) I admit, reasons for ESE!Snape in this scenario are 
weak.

DD – what is his top priority at the moment – Horcruxes and 
particularly finding out more about Nagini.  Who is the only person 
who can help him in that direction – Snape.

Now, why don't I think the conversation is about Draco, and Snape 
not wanting to watch over him any more. Snape knows that having made 
the UV, he has absolutely no choice about Draco.  The best he and 
possibly DD (if DD is in the loop) can do is delay the moment when 
Draco has an opportunity to kill DD.  Draco may be being unco-
operative, but IMO that really isn't a big enough problem for Snape 
to effectively commit suicide by giving up on one of the terms of 
the UV.  If he really was trying to get out of watching over Draco, 
he wouldn't be having a row with DD – he'd be wallowing in self-
pity. 

IMO, what Snape wants out of, is having to put himself into 
situations like the UV in order to spy for DD.  (You see here I am 
arguing an evil Snape on the side of good :-)  )  Perhaps the `You 
take too much for granted" remark is about just how far into life-
threatening danger Snape has to take himself in order to continue to 
convince Voldemort that he isn't a double-agent, and that it can 
only get more and more difficult and dangerous.

OK folks, would love to hear your responses as always. 

Saraquel