what was Dumbledore's plan, really?

[M.Clifford]

No: HPFGUIDX 137950

> Valky earlier:
> Cedric was a tragedy, I believe. The saddest thing of all. The one 
> to be remembered as the innocent sacrifice who *needn't* have died.
> Sirius and Dumbledore we are reminded carefully, are men with 
> purpose and courage the kind who would give their own lives 
> completely, wouldn't become ghosts or try to avoid giving the gift 
> that selfless actions could provide to those they love. These are 
> not the simply miserable tragedies that they first appear. 
> 
> So what exactly *are* they?

> Sherry now:
> 
> I think I could find myself not so sad about Dumbledore's death, if 
> we learn in time that he planned for Sirius to die.  That it was 
> another of his not so clever plans after all.

Valky again:
*cough* I am sorry I touched that nerve in you Sherrie. Am I allowed
to giggle at the sarcasm, just a little bit *smile* you are very witty
about it.

Um there's really no way around actually admitting to you that, yes, I
do believe DD confesses a hand in Sirius' death and means it very much
literally. You don't have to like it now, but I think if I am correct
about these things, then book seven will be written in such a way that
even the most sentimental reader, like yourself, will be at peace with
it in the end. 


Sherrie:
> That would be cruelty to Harry beyond what i,
> and very possibly Harry, could forgive. 
> Perhaps, I'm misunderstanding what
> you were trying to say though. 

Valky:
I do understand where you're coming from, and you're right that you
have misundertsood where I am coming from. 
However, I will address your point individually because I think that
the answer to that particular objection is definitely a crucial part
of this theory. I agree that could Harry be spared the cruel pain of
the losses he has sustained over the years then absolutely anyone with
the power to spare him, should have done so unquestioningly. But
notice this.. For one I said *if* he could be spared it. And for two,
DD confessed to Harry that he had done almost *nothing* but try to
spare Harry a few extra moments of happiness for four years. It was
time, frankly, to get down to business. And it *was always* going to
hurt Harry and cut this deeply into his heart, but DD didn't do that
to him. Voldemort did. When he chose to mark him in Godrics Hollow,
Harry was destined to face the life of the prophecy boy who cannot
live while the other survives. 

Think again carefully, wouldn't it be more callous for all of them,
Sirius and Dumbledore, maybe even Snape, to sit back on their laurels
pressing Harry onward to *his* death, never willing to give their own
lives too? Or sacrifice their happiness and comfort? I'm sorry but
that would make Sirius and Dumbledore far less wonderful than they
actually are in my book.




Sherrie:
> Knowing the character of Sirius, it's easy
> to see him rushing off to rescue Harry.  Is it also likely that he 
> would have knowingly entered into a secret plan with Dumbledore, to 
> be killed and leave Harry an orphan again? 


Valky:
No, not to "leave Harry an Orphan" I know that, definitely, this was
the product of the plan. But what would be the product of no plan
then. Remember wht DD told him at the end of OOtP he faces sacrificing
himself for the wizard worlds people. Harry would choose to do it, and
then what for Sirius and Dumbledore - they go on to happy normal
lives..? That's beyond ridiculous, they would never ask him to
sacrifice *only* himself if they too, could give something that might
provide a last chance for him to have the life that was cruelly taken
from him before he was old enough to defend himself. If it takes their
lives to give Harry his then they would give it. That's almost all
there is to my theory. Harry has already had *everything* taken from
him, he has never had a life outside the powerful protection that his
mother left him, he has been denied this all and without a victory
every sacrifice that has already been made, is in vain. They need the
victory, and whatever it takes Harry will do, he said so.. Sirius,
Dumbledore they know it.. A victory it is, whatever it takes.

 
  

Sherrie:
> I am not implying that he would have been
> afraid to die, just that he would not have agreed to leave Harry. 

Valky:
I know you aren't. But we don't know what choice Sirius might have had
in agreeing to leave Harry. If it was the choice between Harry's life
and his though, why would Sirius ever choose his own? 


Sherrie: 
> Or are you thinking it was a Dumbledore plan without the knowledge 
> and agreement of Sirius?  


Valky:
Clearly, I m not. And I truly doubt that DD would ever do this, ever! 
If Sirius died to further the plan then he ran into the DOM entirely
upon his own will, knowing that he would *never* come out again, and
probably also knowing that if he did die that day, Harry could live
and grow and find happiness down the track someday in a world without
Voldemort. Sirius would make *this* choice.

Sherrie:
> Some have suggested in the past, that Sirius was killed by an order
> member, as a way of either getting him out of the way or for the 
> furthering of some plan.  Or of course, if it's someone ESE in the 
> order to remove one of Harry's protectors. 

Valky:
No I ABSOLUTELY don't believe that. Dumbledore was firm in his
resolution at the end of GOF. NO more pointless deaths. "Remember
Cedric Diggory." I take as a statement that says, what comes after
this, you *may* remember as a glorious thing that happened in the
Wizard World, but *never forget Cedric*. He deserves to be remembered
too, he was a wonderful person who deserves a place in our memories,
don't let his death or his life mean nothing to you.


Sherrie:
> Did he also plan the deaths of James and Lily?  
> Shudder.

Valky:
Oh NO not in any WAY! That was *ALL* Lily and James. They gave THEIR
lives for THEIR son, Dumbeldore wouldn't even needed to have suggested
it. It's just out of the question.

> Sherry
> who must confess she is a sentimental reader at times and can't bear 
> puppet master Dumbledore concocting plots and plans with everyone, 
> that ends up causing Harry more grief and pain!

Valky:
No, Dumbledore is not the puppetmaster concocting in my theory, it is
in no way DD's fault that the responsibility comes to him to stand
behind Harry through this all. But I believe he has to take this
responsibility or leave the WW and Harry to Voldemort. I do not envy
him the choices that he would need to make to subvert the sinister
ingenuity of a wizard like LV. If Sirius and DD died for the plan,
then they died because without their sacrifice all was lost for Harry,
for his friends and for all the people of the WW. And it seems to me
that they may well have died for this plan.