The Importance of the Houses and Harry's judgement ( LONG)

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 138045

> Betsy Hp:
<SNIP>
 But I don't think Harry *ever* considered that Draco might 
> actually be a victim of Voldemort's.

Alla:

I am with Phoenixgod - Draco started this adventure as being 
Voldemort's accomplice, NOT a victim, IMO. He planned assacination 
attempt because he wanted glory and even accused Snape of trying to 
steal his glory. 



> Betsy Hp:
> Yeah, that's a theory of mine.  Voldemort took the worst aspects 
of 
> Slytherin and twisted them to his own use: recruiting Death 
Eaters.  
> Just as he was hoping to do with the entire school of Hogwarts 
when 
> he started working on getting the DADA job.
> 
> > >>Alla: 
> > I think this quote from HBP contradicts it.
> > "He was placed in Slytherin House almost the  moment that the 
> > Sorting Hat touched his head" - HBP, p.360.
> > I interpret this quote  that Tom's values when he just came to 
> > Hogwarts were already very similar to what Salazar looking for 
in 
> > his students.
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> I think this quote counters your theory:
> 
> "You'll be Gryffindor like her, I suppose?  Yes, it usually goes 
in 
> families." (HBP scholastic p.70)
> 
> Tom *was* Slytherin's last surviving heir, after all.


Alla:

I am sorry I don't understand. I was saying that I interpret my 
quote as  the idea that Slytherin House values equal Tom's values, 
that he did not HAVE to twist anything, Slytherin House was already 
twisted enough to accept eleven year old bully with psychopathic 
tendencies.

Could you clarify how the quote you brought up contradicts my        
argument, please?





> Betsy Hp:

<SNIP>
> Yes, Draco is plotting to kill someone.  That's correct.  Harry 
was 
> right about that.  But he's being *forced* to do it by a mad-man 
> willing to kill his entire family if Draco fails.  That changes 
the 
> picture somewhat.  At least, in my opinion.

Alla:

No, he was not, or at least we don't have a definite proof( unless I 
forgot something) that Draco was blackmailed right from the 
beginning - because we have Draco bragging to his fellow Slytherins 
about glory he would receive after fulfilling the task.

To me it looked like LATER in the year, MUCH later when Draco 
started chickening out, THEN Voldemort told him that he would do 
something bad to his parents, unless Draco does what he was told to 
do.





> 
> > >>Alla:
> > Ooo, I so with Preposterous here. I want a Slytherin I would 
like 
> > and I have not met one yet, which I fully like > > <snip>
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> Just out of curiousty, Alla, who has Harry liked that you have 
not?  


Alla:

I am not that fond of Hermione when she is by herself, without Harry 
or Ron. And I think that Harry likes her A LOT, don't you agree?

In fact, if she was not friends with  the boys, believe me I would 
have liked her even less.





> Betsy Hp:
> Oh ick.  I hope not.  I'm not sure how harmony is achieved when 
all 
> the instruments are taken away.  Of course, I'm a fan of the house 
> system, so obviously, YMMV. :)
> 


Alla:

Which instruments? people from all Houses will be there, but they 
would be able to integrate more and achieve much needed unity, IMO.


Phoenixgod: 
<snip>
 Harry hasn't exactly been treated well by any Slytherin, not 
> just Draco.  Why exactly should he think well of any of them?


Alla:

Exactly, Phoenixgod, thank you. 

Phoenixgod:
<snip>
> And lets not forget that Draco 
> is responsible for mutilating Bill, whatever other injuries done 
> during the raid, Dumbledore's death, and nearly killing any number 
of 
> students. 

Alla:

Oh, you know, I have not even realised that. Indeed, Draco IS 
accomplice to Dumbledore's murder despite the fact that he lowered 
his wand. Because if he did not let DE into Hogwarts into first 
place, maybe Snape would not have killed Dumbledore.

Oh, but this is only valid if Snape did not really want to kill 
Dumbledore, right? Maybe not, because in any event Draco gave Snape 
a perfect possibility.

Hm, my head hurts.


Prep0strus wrote:
<HUGE SNIP> 
>> Harry sees quickly that Slughorn is interested in himself, in his
> 'connections', his influence.  And quickly disgards those who can't
> add to his web of worthiness.
> 
> I don't think this is us being deceived by Harry's view.  I think 
this
> is how JKR wants us to see Slughorn.  He's not an evil guy, but I
> think he still has enough negative Slytherin qualities to make him
> unlikeable. 


Alla:

Ooooo, you hit it, PrepOstrus. That IS why I don't like Slughorn 
much.  I don't like discarding away people whom you judge  that they 
cannot help you in your ambitions.

And YES I speculate this is the quality of Slytherin House which JKR 
does not like much either, besides "purebloodism" - not simply 
ambition, but desire to succeed not by your own talent, but by using 
other people and if necessary hurting them in the process.



Just my opinion,

Alla.