The DADA jinx and its victims (Was:The best reason for Dumbledore to trust

[M.Clifford]

No: HPFGUIDX 138066


> Valky wrote:
> > So what about Snape? <snip>
> > What appears to happen in HBP is that the UV is the agent of the
> > curse. It fits the pattern, appears before the start of term, 
> > strung along through the plot it lies in wait to ambush its prey..  
> > all good.
> > <snip> In each case the actual agent of the undoing is
> > itself representative of the dark side of the DADA teacher,
> > Quirrel's Dark side - working for Voldemort - killed by Voldemorts 
> > own handiwork (the protection in Harry's skin), Gilderoy's Dark 
> > side - One Spell Wonder - loses all to his spell, Lupins Dark side 
> > - Secrets kept for his friends - loses his job to his secret that 
> > his friends kept for him, Crouch's Dark Side - His Dark Mark which 
> > he loves - Undone in the end by his Dark Mark, Umbridges Dark Side 
> > - drafting sadistic legislation - gets treated to laws of another 
> > autonomous sentient.  
> > So what we are looking for in the UV is the connection to Snapes
> > Dark side. It's obvious, but it's still ambiguous. Snape's Dark 
> > side is clearly that someone shouldn't Trust him. Trust is the 
> > point of a Unbreakable Vow, or should I say a lack of it. Now like 
> > I said, it remains ambiguous because we already knew that 
> > *someone* was being decieved by Snape, does the UV tell us 
> > anything more about who it is that is being decieved? <snip>
> > 
> 
> Carol responds:
> Good summation, Valky. You may be right about the feud rather than 
> the map as agent (though Lupin should not have kept it and he should 
> have wiped it clean before running out). I really like your Dark 
> Mark as agent for Crouch!Moody idea.
> 

Valky now:
Thanks Carol, the Dark Mark appeals to me in its simplicity, it is a
one simple central thing, so I ike it very much except that Crouch
seems to be the reversal of Quirrel - Quirrel wants to hide his
Loyalty while Crouch wants to reveal it and that irritates and
confuses me about my line of thinking there. Something always seems to
 be slightly out of place when putting this jinx together, for me.


Carol:
> What I was getting at though, is that the DADA curse works 
> Voldemort's will, consciously or unconsciously. 

Valky:
Oh yeah Darn it, I went off on my own tangent and that totally slipped
my mind, I am glad you repeated it to me though because I did want to
explore that too. 

Carol:
> In almost all cases (Umbridge's and Lockhart's are the weakest for 
> the theory) the DADA teachers are somehow linked to Voldemort and/or
> their fall benefits him. 
> Quirrell's connection is obvious, as is Crouch!Moody's. Lockhart is 
> supposedly on his way to deal with the basilisk when the DADA curse 
> strikes. Even Umbridge, my weakest example, is linked to Voldemort 
> by the Dementors she sends after Harry and the Crucio she tries to 
> cast on him. Lupin's
> fall releases Wormtail and Snape's fall kills Dumbledore, both clear
> advantages for Voldemort regardless of the will of the DADA teacher
> involved. 


Valky:
Yeah wow, when you put it that way. <g> 
I'd like to look at what could be behind that. The motives for
Voldemorts curse. The firt motive would be to force DD to give in and
give him the job. That one is strong enough, but it's not really "Toms
style" to leave it at one purpose, is it? So lets assume that the
curse works in other ways on the assumption that DD decides to be
stubbornly patient with the loss of the DADA teacher every year, which
would be a smart call on LV's behalf. I like the notion that you
propose Carol, that when the DADA teacher falls it is to Voldies
benefit. It works quite well for all he teachers, except maybe for
Crouch (not *him* again) under my proposal that him being found out by
DD is the fall. So if we go back to the Triwizard Tournament (which is
in place before the start of term) like you proposed it works just
fine. I can't figure out how that would fit in my *other* stream of
thought though. But back to the original point now, a third motive
that Voldie might have is to set up the curse in such a way that it
always targets Dumbledore in some way, trying to eventually remove him
from the Headmaster position in vengeance for his refusal. This kind
of makes sense, in the fact that DD is at a loss to fill the position
with anyone, but those who can get him in deep trouble. Possibly why
he now is used to putting shady characters into the position. And the
thing that ousts them in the end, is that fact that DD is still there
and they haven't gotten rid of him for LV.  Quirrel worked for
Voldemort, Lockhart was completely useless, Lupin had a furry little
problem, Moody was a very strange and paranoid Auror, and his
counterpart Crouch was as shady as they come, Umbridge was clearly out
for DD's blood in her Quill, and finally Snape, well thats the
sticking point there isn't it. How *did* DD get him into the DADA if
Voldie has made it all but impossible to put someone who can't ruin DD
into the position. See this is running me in circles now. It's still
so ambiguous. All roads Dead end!! 

Assuming that DD had figured out the nature of the magic that LV had
left in his school makes good sense. He's had 30 years to do it, I'd
say that after the first 20 or so he'd have *some* idea how it works
<g>. So lets assume he'd figured it out now and that's why he picked
all these very shady characters for the DADA spot, knowing that with
each and every one, he'd be compelled to defend his role as Headmaster
because of the tendency of his DADA teacher to make *him* look bad. 
So what then when it comes time for Harry's sixth year DADA teacher?
Why would he choose Snape, how could Snape be available all these
years, if he *wasn't* able to bring down DD.. ? If Dumbledore has
trusted Severus all these years, then why? Snape has always been
available for the DADA job, which would imply, if we assume the above,
that Snape was always capable of removing DD from the Headmasters
role, someway. I have really talked my way into a corner here, I just
don't know. I should just stop trying to investigate this it never
goes anywhere... 

 
> Carol, wondering if Valky noticed that an earlier post credits her
> with hiding Horcruxes (So that's what you've been doing when you
> weren't posting. Talk about secrets!) ;-)


Valky, Wondering, how does Saraquel *know* about my Horcruxes..? ;D