YES ( was: Did Snape "murder" Dumbledore?)

[colebiancardi]

No: HPFGUIDX 138205

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "eggplant107" <eggplant107 at h...>
wrote:
> juli17 at a... wrote:
> 
> > if she [JKR] wanted it to be 
> > perfectly clear that Snape
> > murdered DD and was undeniably
> > evil, she would have written 
> > the scene that way.[
] Snape
> > would have AKed DD with no 
> > hesitation, with a flourish no doubt.
> 
> But that's exactly what Snape did, he murdered Dumbledore the instant
> he walked into the room, he didn't hesitate a millisecond. 
> 
> > Dumbledore wouldn't have begged
> > Snape, he would have spoken 
> > his disappointment. 
> 
> Snape never gave him time, he didn't hesitate, he murdered him as
> quickly as it was possible to do so and with a look of extreme hatred
> on his face.
>
colebiancardi here:
ok.  What book were you reading?  Look at p595 AmEd
"..the doors to the ramparts burst open once more and there stood
Snape, his wand clutched in his hand as his black eyes swept the
scene, from Dumbledore slumped against the wall, to the 4 Death
Eaters, including the enraged werefolf, and Malfoy.
"We've got a problem, Snape," said the lumpy Amycus, whose eyes & wand
were fixed alike upon Dumbledore, "the boy doesn't seem able --
But somebody else had spoken Snape's name, quite softly
"Severus..." 
The sound frighten Harry beyond anything he had experienced all
evening.  For the first time, Dumbledore was pleading.
Snape said nothing, but walked forward & pushed Malfoy roughly out of
the way.  The 3 Death Eaters fell back without a word.  Even the
werewolf seemed cowed.
Snape gazed for a moment at Dumbledore, and there was revulsion &
hatred etched in the harsh lines of his face.
"Severus... please.."
Snape raised his wand & pointed it directly at Dumbledore.

ok, Snape comes in and does an assessment of the scene - the first
sentance shows us that - "his black eyes swept the scene...." from DD
to the DE's & Malfoy.  A DE speaks to Snape, DD speaks to Snape TWICE
- Snape walked forward....he pushed Draco roughly out of the way <==
was it roughly because he resented what he HAD to do -- 

No Hestination?   No hestination would be Snape walked in and did an
AK.  End of sentence.  Does hestination to you mean that Snape, the
DE's, Draco & DD all sit down and have tea & cookies?

> > Snape would never have let the
> > opportunity to torture Harry with
> > a crucio or two pass, let alone
> > stop another DE from doing it. 
> 
> Not if he wanted Harry alive and healthy as I believe he does.
> 
> > Snape would have really taunted
> > Harry, not with semi-lessons 
> > included, but in full nasty mode.
> 
> Snape sure seemed like he was in full nasty mode to me. And
semi-lessons? 
> 

colebiancardi again:
Full nasty mode to you, perhaps.  We've seen Snape be a heck of lot
more nasty.  Was he calling Harry names?  No.  He was telling him a
couple of things - no unforgivable curses & blocked again & again,
until he can keep his mouth shut & his mind closed.  Actually, Snape
was not as bad as we've seen him with Harry like he was in books 1-3 -
I thought Snape was much more nasty then.  Snape wouldn't let anyone
curse or hex Harry, and all Snape did was deflect Harry's curses - he
did not counterhex Harry.  Until Harry got on his weak spot - with the
Coward Line - only then did Snape do an wizard equivalent of a
*bitch-slap* with the white-hot, whiplike something that hit Harry in
the face.

> > Snape would have incapacitated
> > Harry after a fulfilling bit of
> > torture and taken him to Voldemort
> 
> Why would Snape do that? Snape wants Voldemort dead as much as anyone
> and he is one of the very few who know that Harry is the only one who
> could do it.

So, why didn't Snape take Harry with them?  I think we can agree that
Snape is much more powerful as a wizard than Harry is at this point. 
Or why didn't Snape let the other DE kill him?  I don't think Voldy
would have cared that much.

> 
> > Snape would have thrown a few 
> > nasty spells around at the 
> > likes of Hermoine,Luna,and Flitwick. 
> 
> Snape is evil and Snape is a villain, but he's not a cartoon villain.
> Even Snape might be reluctant to murder children if it was not
> necessary to do so.

Flitwick is a child?  Tonks is a child?  Lupin is a child?  Hey, there
were some adults there - why didn't Snape kill them?  

> 
> > he wouldn't have just slunk out of
> > Hogwarts, he would have left some
> > serious destruction behind. 
> 
> Snape and his Death Eater pals were outnumber about 100 to 1, after
> they had completed their mission with a huge success they just wanted
> to escape with their skin.

colebiancardi again:
100 to 1?  Really?  Seems like the DE's had the blocking spell going
pretty well and were holding their own and if it wasn't for the Felix
potion, the kids would have been toast.    I only counted 6 OotP
members at the base of the tower - Ginny, Neville, Ron, Lupin, Tonks,
McGonagall. Contrast that with the DE's - Fenrir, Amycus, the lumpy
DE, Alecto, and it is stated on page 599 - there were 3 more unnamed
DE's fighting Tonks, Lugin & McGonagall.  Add in Draco & Snape, sounds
like great odds that the DE's, with Snape, could have caused so much
more destruction if they wanted to.

On another post, you mentioned that the *look* of hatred & revulsion
on Snape's face was a dead giveaway for him being evil.  Sorry, page
571 "Hating himself, repulsed by what he was doing, Harry forced the
goblet back towards Dumbledore's mouth & tipped it, so that Dumbledore
drank the remainder of the potion inside"

Is Harry evil?  It is no coincidence that Rowling wrote those words to
describe what Harry was feeling & what was on Snape's face.  

colebiancardi
(who may be wrong about Good!Snape, but at least reads the books
carefully)