[HPforGrownups] Re: Dumbledore's master plan

[Lawrence Carlin]

No: HPFGUIDX 138237

--- nyx0205 <ShailyPatel at alumni.wfu.edu> wrote:

> You make some excellent points, but I still think
> that Dumbledore 
> had some master plan, and I'll provide you some
> evidence, and 
> perhaps you'll humor me enough to tell me what you
> think.
> 
> Let's see:
> 
> 1.  Dumbledore once said that death, to the well
> organized 
> mind, "was the next great adventure. (PS)"  When
> he's cornered by 
> Snape, Dumbledore says, "Please, Severus."  I doubt
> very much that 
> he would be begging for his life.  He may be asking
> to be spared for 
> the sake of Harry and the rest of the wizarding
> world, but I'll get 
> to that....

Larry Now:

In my original post, 138106, I am explicit that
Dumbledore is not begging for his life. He is begging
for the sake of Harry, for whom he would do anything,
even beg. As for Dumbledore's aside that to the well
organized mind death is but the next great adventure;
I take this as his utter fearlessness in the face of
the unknown. In other words, why would an organized
mind fear the inevitable? Only the mind in chaos would
attempt to control what is ultimately out of our
control. Didn't Hagred say GOF Am. ed. P. 719 "What't
comin' will come, an' we'll meet it when it does."

 
> 2.  I think there's evidence to argue that
> Dumbledore passes the 
> torch, if you will.  When he and Harry are preparing
> to apparate 
> from the cove back to Hogsmeade after their cave
> adventure, Harry 
> says to him not to worry--to which Dumbledore
> replies, "I'm not 
> worried Harry.  I am with you."

Larry now:
There is no evidence of any torch passing, or even
that there is a torch to pass. The whole quote reads,
HBP Am. ed. P. 578 "I am not worried, Harry," said
Dumbledore, his voice a little stronger despite the
freezing water, "I am with you." It seems that in
spite of the potion, in spite of the freezing water,
being in Harry's presence as well as in physical
contact with Harry brings strength to Dumbledore's
voice, and by implication, Dumbledore himself.

How could this be? Well, Harry shows absolutely no
signs of being the wand-waving or spell casting phenom
that Dumbledore is. And he shows no signs that he will
become this powerful in the conventional sense. OOTP
Am. ed. P.711 "...not if Dumbledore doesn't want to be
found. I should know....Examined him personally in
Transfiguration and Charms when he did N.E.W.T.s...
Did things with a wand I'd never seen before..." There
is not even a hint that Harry is there, or ever going
to get there.

What Harry has, the power the Dark Lord knows not, is
Love. A power that exists in Harry at his core, and is
so pure and powerful that it radiates like the sun,
creating an aura that can strengthen and support a
terribly weakened and possibly dying Dumbledore. 

 
> 3. There is further evidence to support Dumbledore's
> belief that 
> Harry was infact ready to do battle.  If he believed
> Harry to be 
> less than prepared, I doubt he would have allowed
> Harry to accompany 
> him to the cave in search of the horcrux, or even
> explained to Harry 
> about horcruxes for that matter (they seem to be
> VERY taboo in the 
> wizarding world, if someone as open minded as
> Dumbledore had the 
> subject banned).

Larry now:
Dumbledore could not have reached the horcrux alone,
and who better to accompany him than Harry. After all,
he gave his word to Harry, did he not?

And how exactly is Harry ready? He could not have
breached the cave, find or raise the boat, let alone
fend off the inferi.

Harry has love, but he has not learned to harness or
use it. This is why Dumbledore begged, this is what
was left undone. Dumbledore died in despair, his task
undone. Harry desperately needs his friends, they must
stand in as proxy for Dumbledore. For only with them
will he be able to fulfill his quest.

 
> 4.  Dumbledore had to be sure that he was going to
> die before the 
> prophecy was fulfilled.  If not, then how come he
> (the most powerful 
> wizard in the world) was not 'The Chosen One.'  I
> think knowing 

Larry now:
See above. It is not conventional wizarding power that
will defeat Voldemort, he is far beyond this, as we
have seen and Dumbledore knew. There is something
about the Love within Harry that makes him the Chosen
One. Yes Dumbledore had love, but there is something
about the Love within Harry that is quantitatively
different. It may be the source or the purity or some
other unknown factor, but it is different.

 
> 5.  And finally, I think Dumbledore valued his spy
> within 
> Voldemort's ranks more than his own life.  I also
> think he was 
> trying to save Draco, who as we have witnessed, is
> not beyond 
> redemption just yet.  Better Snape the killer and
> his place 
> solidified as Voldemort's right hand man, than Draco
> the killer, and 
> his life destroyed.  Furthermore, there is no Death
> Eater that could 
> question Snape's loyalty now.  This may allow him to
> be privy to 
> certain information otherwise withheld from the
> others....the 
> locations of the horcruxes perhaps?  Perhaps
> Voldemort would trust 
> him enough to make him protector of the horcruxes
> that remain?  It's 
> a weak case, I know, but it still prompts some
> questions.
> 
> Yesterday I was reading Philosopher's Stone, more
> specifically the 
> chapter that includes Harry's first start of term
> banquet, and there 
> is a mention that Harry had never seen so many
> things he liked to 
> eat on one table, and I began to wonder, what IF
> Dumbledore was the 
> Chess Master, deciding the inertia of Harry's life
> long before Harry 
> had any idea of Lord Voldemort.  What if Dumbledore
> set the menu for 
> Harry's first start of term feast?
> 
> "nyx0205" 

Larry now:
Dumbledore states clearly that to kill, to take a life
unjustifiably, forever splits the soul; damaging or
destroying it irrepairably and irretrievably. I cannot
understand how we can have gotten to know Dumbledore
as we have and believe for a second that he would
sacrifice a human soul for any reason. Let alone for
so craven a thing as the placement of a spy.

Dumbledore has also said that Voldemort trusts no one,
there is no inner circle. Voldemort is the only chess
master here, it is hisutterly ruthless willingness to
sacrifice any one or anything to get what he wants
that marks him as the Dark Lord. For Dumbledore to
sacrifice a soul, any soul, would be to have him use
the means of the enemy., putting him on the road to
becoming the enemy.

Remember, it is our choices that makes us who we are.
And if we choose to act as the Dark Lord, we will
become as the Dark Lord. A choice Dumbledore would
never make, and a path he would never follow.

Larry 
 

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