Levels and contradictions in JKR's writing - Twisted Irony

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 138439

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Jen Reese" <stevejjen at e...> wrote:
> Lupinlore:
> > > .. Dumbledore, ... who is associated with ... the power of 
> > > choice and ... trust, ... relate(s) to him ... as a dangerous
> > > and deeply flawed child, ...  ..., we have a ... contradiction 
> > > woven .., in which choice and trust is emphasized but the main
> > > villain is a monster from birth, ..
> 
> Jen: 
> How Dumbledore viewed Tom after his first encounter is easy enough 
> to guess ... said Dumbledore. "No, I had no idea that he was to grow
> up to be what he is. ..." (chap. 13. p. 276, US). ...
> 
> If anything, Dumbledore trusted Tom too much--he didn't tell the 
> other teachers about Mrs. Cole's stories or his own interaction with 
> Tom; ...
> 
> > Pippin:
> > The contradiction is not in the narrative, but in the 
> > interpretation ... on it. People have taken  Dumbledore's words 
> > to mean, "we are what we choose to be."
> > 
> > ... He said, speaking of  Harry's choice not to bein Slytherin, 
> > that it   "makes you *very different* from Tom  Riddle. It is our 
> > choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our 
> > abilities." (emphasis in the text)

bboyminn:

Isn't there some way we can work Horcruxes or Unbreakable Vows into
this discussion? (He said with a sarcastic smile.) Sorry, just
couldn't resist that.

Excellent comments all around; very insightfull. Mostly I agree but
later I would like to point out a sweet twisted irony in all this.

I think people are generalizing Dumbledore's 'choices' comment too
much. It is true that our choice in life are important, in a general
life sense we are all a combination of our life choice and a bit of
fate or luck. But Dumbledore's comment while still having general
relevance is still given within a specific context as others have
pointed out.

I think, in a sense, Dumbledore is saying that it is what we do with
our /abilities/ more than the abilities themselves that determine who
and what we are. Expanding that concept in the context of the
discussion, Harry is worried that he might be Slytherin, have
Slytherin qualities, or share qualities with the ultimate Slytherin -
Tom Riddle. Dumbledore is telling Harry that it doesn't matter, even
if he has all the Slytherin qualities there are in double-spades, it
still doesn't matter, because Harry chose his direction in life
independant of those qualities. 

In a very general sense, Harry chose courage over power. Although, he
didn't specifically choose Gryffindor, he did demonstrated courage in
denying the desire for power. Temper this with the fact that Harry, in
his 11-year-old child-like way, was more likely saying 'not Draco'
than 'not Slytherin'. That in itself has a strange ironic twist to it.


> Jen: 
> There is some ambiguity in the text about choices. Dumbledore 
> also states in GOF: "You fail to recognize that it matters not what 
> someone is born, but what they grow to be!..." (chap.36, p. 
> 708).
> 
> This statement is a good tie-in to Lupinlore's thought that 
> Voldemort was doomed to be the son of a poisoned bloodline. ...
> 
> Pippin:
> > The emphasis is on examining people's choices in order to
> > determine who can be trusted, not on the idea that we are solely
> > what we choose to be. ...
> 
> Jen: 
> Dumbledore proves he believes in a person's ability to change 
> by allowing Tom to enter Hogwarts without influencing the other 
> teachers and students. ...
>  
> Pippin:
> > How people become evil is a separate issue. To say that Voldemort
> > was not born evil does not say that his miserable heritage and 
> > upbringing did nothing to influence the choices he made. ...
> 
> Jen: 
> ... Tom had very little to work with, given the strikes against him 
> in both nature and nurture. ... JKR is making the point of
> how truly difficult it is to sow the seeds of pure evil in a 
> basically good person. Tom never had the chance to live the life of 
> a Hermione or a Ron, but he actively worked against his base nature 
> of goodness and *chose* to obliterate his soul, even after the 
> opportunity presented itself to become a  different kind of person 
> when he discovered he was a wizard. 
> 
> Jen

bboyminn:

Here is what I think the turning point for Tom was; the day he killed
his father and grandparents. Up until that point as rotten and nasty
as he may have been, he was still capable of being redeemed and
setting his life on a more positive path. Once he chose such an evil
act, the die had been cast and he became irredeemably Voldemort.

Now the strange twisted irony of it all. If Tom had not kill his
parents, if he had chosen to work hard and achieve all he could in
life on the merits of his skill and ability, he would have easily
achieved everything he desire. I believe if on the path of good, Tom
would be the undisputed Minster of Magic, and a wizard of worldwide
influence and power. Though his Slytherin qualities may not be liked
by some, none could deny his power both as a person and has a wizard.

Tom was a brilliant, clever, and charismatic wizard, as well as very
insightfull and decisive. He had every characteristic to make him a
strong and powerful leader, yet in a way that would gain him the
respect and admiration of all those who knew and knew of him. If he
had chosen the path of good, he could be the most powerful and truly
respected wizard in the world.

He could have chosen a life in which he forced people to bend to his
will, or to live a life in which he used his intelligence and charisma
to make people willing to bend. He chose the path of 'force' because
he didn't trust himself enough to believe that he could rule the world
with 'finesse'.

You must see the twisted irony in that. If Tom had not killed his
parents, if he had live his life to the best of his abilities, he
could have had everything he wanted plus been admired by the entire
wizard world. Now, having chosen his dark and dangerous path of force,
power, and destruction, he has doomed his self to an endless futile
struggle to try and hold together a world of oppressive domination and
force tenuous allegiances. 

"Tyranny is the architect of its own doom."

Not sure if I added anything, but there it is.

Steve/bboyminn