I KNOW WHAT SNAPE WANTS!

[Richard]

No: HPFGUIDX 138447

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "vmonte" <vmonte at y...> wrote:
> Richard wrote:
> This would not be the case, were it not for the fact that Harry has
> foiled Voldemort repeatedly, and with broad public knowledge of this
> fact. In PS/SS, it was not really necessary, and the primary goal of
> obtaining the PS/SS superceded such a lesser consideration. In CoS,
> it would have been Tom Riddle/Voldemort who killed him via his use 
of
> the basillisk (sp?). TR/LV don't really directly play in PoA, but in
> GoF Harry survives Voldemort's attempt on his life, and does so with
> an audience of Death Eaters, thus making it more imperative that
> Voldemort do the deed himself. By the time we get to the end of
> OotP, Harry and friends have foiled Voldemort's attempt to steal the
> prophecy, demonstrated (again before witnesses) that Voldemort 
cannot
> possess him, and survived Voldemort's indirect attempt on his life
> (via Voldemort's trying to get Dumbledore to do the deed for him as 
a
> means of killing Voldemort during the possession, and this also
> before said witnesses).
> 
> Given all this, it should not be surprising that now Voldemort is
> determined to kill Harry personally. Harry is now too much of a
> symbol of the fallability and defeatability of Voldemort himself for
> Voldemort NOT to kill him, up close, personally and before as many
> witnesses as can be mustered for the event.
> 
> vmonte:
> I'm not sure how your argument makes mine invalid. I happen to 
agree 
> with you that Voldemort wants to get rid of Harry himself--because 
he 
> needs to save face. It's just that I also happen to think that he 
is 
> going to have to take out whatever is inside of Harry first. 
Surely, 
> if the last word in the series is "scar" there must be more to that 
> scar than just it's shape? 
> 
> To me it makes sense if Harry is a horcrux because I think that in 
> the end Harry will sacrifice himself for his friends and the WW. I 
> don't think that Harry will kill anyone through violence--JMO.
> 
> It's interesting that Tom Riddle's diary had the ability to 
basically 
> suck the life out of Ginny and regenerate itself into another Tom 
> Riddle.
> 
> Dumbledore tells Harry in HBP that he is amazed that with 
everything 
> that Harry has been through and with all his suffering that he 
still 
> is "pure-of-heart!"  I think that Harry has a stronger will than 
> Voldemort. Perhaps the protection Harry received from his mother 
has 
> made him invulnerable to corruption.  
> 
> My feeling is that someone will remove the horcrux from Harry. 
Harry 
> may even die or be brought back from the brink of death (Snape 
seems 
> to be able to put a stopper in death anyway). 
> 
> What do you think will happen if the soul piece is put back into 
> Voldemort?  My hunch is that it may kill him. If Voldemort cannot 
> bear to go into Harry's mind (OOTP) because of the love that 
resides 
> in there, can you imagine what a soul piece that's been living 
inside 
> Harry for 17 years will do to him? Remember, Voldemort also has 
> Lily's blood running inside his veins.      
> 
> Vivian 
> 
> I know people think that Snape is a good person, sorry I just 
don't. 
> It's possible that he may be redeemed in the end for some future 
act 
> in book 7, but he has done nothing at present to suggest his 
loyalty 
> to anyone but himself--again, JMO.

Richard again:

I don't think it invalidates your argument, just that it is stronger, 
and does not make as many assumptions of a non-canonical nature.

I think that if there were a fragment of Voldemort's soul in Harry, 
Harry's and Voldemort's souls would have been at war with each other 
from the moment that the transfer took place.  By the same reasoning 
that you use to ask what a fragment that had been in Harry for so 
long would do to Voldemort, I ask, "What would being in Harry do to 
such a fragment?"  I think it would end up dead, as can be argued 
from Voldemort's experience in trying to possess Harry in OotP.  Yet, 
I don't see support in canon for such an internal war.

A transfer of powers, as mentioned in canon by Dumbledore, is not the 
necessarily the same as a transfer of a fragment of one's soul.  If 
the powers transferred were associated with that fragment of soul, I 
don't see how Harry would be able to control and use those powers, as 
the fragment would be continually battling to retain control of 
itself and its inherent qualities.  We have support for powers being 
carried by a fragment of soul, as occured with Tom's diary, but that 
fragment retained control of those powers, and used them against 
Ginny.  Wouldn't such a fragment in Harry have used its powers 
against Harry ANY of the times that Harry directly battled Voldemort?

I suppose you could argue that each fragment would, given Voldemort's 
personality, try to establish itself as THE Lord Voldemort, given an 
opportunity such as that in Tom's diary encountered, and that such a 
fragment would not feel itself bound to work on Voldemort's behalf in 
any battle, especially as victory by Voldemort in such a battle would 
likely mean the destruction of the fragment with Harry's death.  
Still, we just don't see any attempt by a fragment to establish 
itself in Harry.

I still say your argument is a good one, but I don't think it as 
strong as the simple one that Voldemort has to save face, prevent a 
rival arising, etc., by killing Harry himself.  In the end, it is 
JKR's story, though, and she'll tell us when she's good and ready.

Richard