[HPforGrownups] Re: Malice and Ulterior Motives

[Lawrence Carlin]

No: HPFGUIDX 138803




Larry:
 
> > Really? Didn't Dumbledore in OOTP confess to Harry
> > that by not fully informing Harry of the whole and
> > entire truth he put the larger community at risk?
> 

> Jen: Yes, and he called it the 'flaw in his plan'
> and said 'I had 
> fallen into the trap I had foreseen'. He viewed the
> fact that he 
> cared more for Harry's happiness than the 'nameless,
> faceless' 
> people and creatures of the WW as a mistake.
> Dumbledore clearly 
> stated he held this conviction about community good,
> yet succumbed 
> to the temptation to spare Harry pain. 


Larry now:

Didn't Dumbledore also state somewhere that we are
defined by our choices? JMO, but I think we can define
ourselves by our convictions or by our actions; and
where they are inconsistant I go with choices over
convictions every time.



snip



> Jen: If Voldemort AK'd everyone he didn't completely
> trust he would 
> have no followers. You alluded to this same idea:
> "Dumbledore has 
> also said that Voldemort trusts no one, there is no
> inner circle." 
> My intent wasn't clear before, but I wasn't saying
> Voldemort 
> believes Snape is loyal to Dumbledore and he still
> allowed him to 
> live. That would be folly, I agree. 



Larry now:

I agree with you that it would be folly, but I still
don't understand what you are otherwise suggesting. If
Snape is lying to Voldemort as you suggest, what is he
lying about? Snape is either Dumbledore's man or he
isn't. If Snape is wrong as you suggest, what is he
wrong about? What is the wool he believes he has
pulled over Voldemort's snake-like eyes?



Snip

Jen:
 He is 
> more along the lines of 'slippery friend' Lucius. I
> don't find it a 
> contradiction that Snape is still alive even though
> Voldemort 
> doesn't have complete trust in him. Like any pawn,
> Snape will pay 
> for perceived disloyalty now that the job is done.
> 
> Jen


Larry now:


As for Lucius Malfoy, he is indeed seen as "slippery"
by Voldemort, but he is not suspected of being a
Dumbledore loyalist or spy.

As for complete trust, Voldemort has no trust,
complete or otherwise for anyone; he has other means
of enforcing loyality. 

What disloyality will Snape pay for? If he is not
Dumbledore's man there is nothing for him to pay for.
If he is a Dumbledore loyalist and Voldemort knows it,
what usefulness does he serve? If you're suggesting
that Voldemort merely has detected Snape was not loyal
during the long years of his absence, how does that
make Snape any different from all other non-imprisoned
DE, hence what will he have to pay for?

Larry


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