Harry's story , NOT Snape's.

[zgirnius]

No: HPFGUIDX 139012

eggplant:
> Only JKR knows for sure but I wouldn't be surprised if Snape lasts
> longer than Voldemort and the big final confrontation Harry has is 
not
> with Voldemort at all but with someone he hates just as much. 

zgirnius:
I'm with the theory that JKR is writing a fairly standard Hero's 
Quest sort of story (often cited as a reason Snape can't turn out to 
be the Hero of Book 7). For the same reason, he can't turn out to be 
the Villain of it, either. We've known the set-up since Book 1, 
Voldemort is the Evil Dark Lord, and Harry is his Prophecied Heroic 
Nemesis. After Book 6, certainly, Snape *cannot* disappear completely 
off the radar, but will, (my opinion!) have a limited role. A heroic, 
redemptive death that furthers Harry's cause prior to the final 
showdown, if I'm right that he's more on the side of good than not; 
or an ignomonious death, again prior to the final showdown, if I am 
wrong.

eggplant:
> I don't know about being a fool but even the good Snape people must
> admit Dumbledore has done some very foolish things in HBP. <snip>
> Harry told Dumbledore when the danger would happen, where it would
> come from and who was behind it; but when it did happen just as 
> Harry said it would Dumbledore was surprised.

zgirnius:
Conceded. I personally felt that was more than enough to demonstrate 
how much "huger" DD's mistakes can be than those of less clever 
folks...

eggplant:
> Well if it makes you feel any better, I think Snape fooled Voldemort
> for 16 years too. 

zgirnius:
If you are right, these kind words of solace will be appreciated by 
me when I finish reading Book 7...
It is a problem for either the Good! or Evil! Snape camps, of course, 
to explain how exactly Snape managed to fool one or the other Super-
Wizard for sixteen years. The Good!Snape argument would have to 
center around Snape's motivation for changing sides having something 
to do with *love*, "the power he (Voldemort) knows not".

eggplant:
> Are we the only ones who altered our 
> opinion of Snape after we say him butcher Dumbledore?

zgirnius:
For five books I had been vastly enjoying Snape's nasty, sarcastic 
character. (Probably says something about my sense of humor...) I had 
no idea what his true loyalties were, since I saw actions which would 
fit either option, and also little emotional investment in the issue 
of his loyalties, since he would, in my opinion, have made a 
delightful addition to the list of Bad Guys. (Bella, eat your heart 
out! The woman is Gryffindoresque in her loyalty to Voldemort...Snape 
could be so much more nasty, IMHO.)

The events of HBP, oddly enough, *have* altered my position vis-a-vis 
Snape. My analytical, logical side simply does not believe it is 
likely that Snape's actions were motivated by either loyalty to 
Voldemort, or pursuit of a Dark Lord-style personal agenda. (A more 
emotionally driven style personal agenda, revenge, secret love, or 
something like that, I can see.) My romantic, emotional side is 
really *hoping* for a nice redemptive moment for Snape, and some very 
satisfying backstory to explain the guy. And for me the key events 
which shaped this view were the scene on the tower and the scenes 
with Harry in "The Flight of the Prince". I just can't read those 
scenes (and I have read them many, many times) and see a Snape who 
has any sense of accomplishment there. And, if it had all worked out 
as he planned/wished, he ought to have. To me, he really seems on the 
contrary trapped, and unhappy. Let's say, I am very unconvinced that 
what I saw was a premeditated, cold-blooded murder. (Some other sort 
of murder, yes, could be.)

If you turn out to be right, I hope that at least I finally get more 
nasty, evil Snape scenes...this is what I *really* wanted on the 
Tower, and didn't get. (Since this absence means I apparently get 2 
years of entertaining debate about Snape on this list, note that I am 
not complaining about JKR...just offering a Book 7 suggestion...)