[HPforGrownups] Re: Hagrid and Snape's teaching method

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 143902

> Betsy Hp:
  So what Snape actually sees (if 
> we go by the books, anyway) is a challenged student improving.  If 
> it's working, why should Snape change his methods?


Magpie:

I think what it mostly comes down to is that this is Snape.  Teachers 
are who they are in class, and for Snape when somebody isn't doing 
what he wants, he does what he does to Neville.  I suspect he does a 
modified version for Crabbe and Goyle, though they don't have the 
same problems Neville does in class. I think Snape does what he does 
with Neville because it's his instinctual reaction.  His instincts 
are different with kids he likes or doesn't hate, but this is his 
personality.

Does he see it working?  I'd guess anything he doesn't see working he 
chalks up to Neville being hopeless or still not listening--but I do 
think he probably does on some level think that this will work. I 
don't mean that he's got some plan or that he really wants Neville to 
improve as a student, but more that he is locked into his own logic 
about the situation.  Snape's not exactly the type to always drop old 
patterns when they're not helping him.:-)  How many people in the 
world usually gears when their natural first approach doesn't work?  
If Snape has decided Neville is hopeless he's not going to blame 
himself for Neville being a star student, and he'll probably take 
credit for Neville's success.

Also, I do tend to agree with Pippin that, for instance, Snape's 
being Neville's boggart isn't about Snape so much as Neville.  
Hermione's boggart is a teacher too, saying she's failed everything.  
Now, I'm not saying they're the same or that Snape himself has 
nothing to do with why he's Neville's boggart, he does.  But I think 
Snape represents many adults who consider Neville a failure and 
useless, and the part of himself that believes it and can't get away 
from it.  It's funny in HBP that a lot of people think McGonnagall is 
great for saying that Neville's grandmother should start appreciating 
the grandson she has instead of the one she wishes she has--but dude, 
that's a humiliating thing for a teacher to say, isn't it?  I suspect 
that's a lot more painful for Neville than Snape--Snape just takes 
all those unsaid things and says them out loud.  No wonder Neville's 
so upset by him.  

There's times where I think the books go really overboard on the idea 
that Neville just needs "confidence" and will improve, but I do think 
that Neville has had less fear of Snape as he's gotten older, 
particularly after he's had some success under his belt and faced 
some of his fears.  Actually, I suspect Rowling sees that as very 
important for all kids.  Dumbledore seems to stress that with Draco 
at the end of HBP too, and it seemed like a good thing to do--Harry 
doesn't know why he's responding to Draco's nefarious plans as if 
they were an "ambitious homework assignment," but that's what it is.  
A boy, whether they are Draco or Neville, who has inner confidence 
because he sees himself do something on his own, is stronger and 
stronger is better.  

Not to draw too much of a parallel between Neville and Draco there, 
but they both suffered under their family histories in different 
ways.  Just as Neville needs to stop seeing himself as not his 
father, Draco improves when he's testing himself instead of being his 
name.  ("Malfoy would have to rely on his talent if he wanted to do 
well in Advanced Potions"--was good for Malfoy.)

I think the important classes for Neville are often the ones where 
he's singled out somehow.  He does well with Lupin not just because 
Lupin is a good teacher who's good with Neville, but because he 
stands there and makes Neville do it.  It's always seemed to me that 
Neville's way of dealing with constantly being told he's useless is 
to say he's useless, sort of passively giving up to avoid the 
hassle.  It makes sense, but he can't do it with Snape.  If Neville 
says he can't do it, Snape makes him do it anyway.  I'm not 
congratulating Snape for this like he's got good intentions--Sprout 
is no doubt better by not letting Neville give up because he's 
*talented*--but I wouldn't be surprised if Rowling ultimately saw the 
lesson of Neville/Snape being about Neville getting through it rather 
than Neville's childhood hurts being soothed.  

Sherry:

When the kids got caught after handing over Norbert, and
they got detention and lost so many house points, why didn't Hagrid 
confess
that he'd had an illegal dragon and that the kids were trying to help 
him by
getting rid of it?  i've always felt that whole thing was his fault, 
and as
the adult, he should have come forward and said something.  yes, the 
kids
would still have been out of bounds and lost points and gotten 
detention,
but perhaps it wouldn't have been as bad. 

Magpie:

Yes!  But that's central to Hagrid's personality.  Here he is in a 
situation where he's acting completely inappropriately, not taking 
responsibility as an adult when he should have, dragging the kid into 
something illegal he's doing, expecting them to lie for him, and 
never seeming to consider this wrong.  Iirc, all he continually cares 
about is the dragon he wants--and he's looking longingly at the 
dragon eggs in GoF as well.  As Betsy mentioned, his response to Ron 
being bitten by Norbert is to yell at Ron for scaring the dragon.  
Ron spends the next day not getting medical care for his bite because 
he's worried Pomfrey will recognize the bite and Hagrid will get in 
trouble--this while his hand is swelling to twice its normal size.  
They know this is the guy teaching the CoMC class.

-m