Scapegoating Slytherin (was:Punishing Draco )

[nrenka]

No: HPFGUIDX 143974

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "horridporrid03" 
<horridporrid03 at y...> wrote:

To answer one objection up front: I'd love to see something which 
very clearly demarcates "Slytherin philosophy" from "Death Eater 
philosophy".  The practical side of Slytherin House is more tolerant 
in some ways, accepting purebloods.  But Salazar Slytherin, 
canonically, did only want to allow students into Hogwarts based on 
their bloodlines.  We're still arguing over the rationales behind 
leaving a giant killer snake in the school, and what that says about 
someone who would do it.  Five books is a long, long time to wait for 
genuinely positive spin to be put on that.

> > >>Nora:
> > That's not what I was saying.  I'm saying that Slytherin's        
> > insistance on the blood principle itself is something with        
> > tendencies to evil, because of how it conceptualizes human worth.
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> All four houses have their own way of measuring worth.

But I think it's clear that there's something both nasty and 
fundamentally different about the blood valuation from any other way 
of measuring worth.

 
>>>Nora:
>> It's not a case of half-bloods being better than purebloods or any 
>> reverse consequence; it's the case of saying "you have            
>> predetermined value from these abstractions regarding your        
>> parentage" that's wrong.
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> But that particular brush tars Hogwarts in it's entirety.  Every 
> house has its families, the Weasleys in Gryffindor, possibly the 
> Smiths in Hufflepuff.  Plus, Hogwarts *does* predetermine every 
> child's value based on their magical blood.  If a child is not 
> magical, that child does not get into Hogwarts.

That's a question to be faced within wizarding society as a whole; I 
don't think Rowling is going to really deal with the issues of 
wizards vs. Muggles.  But it's bad logic, I think to say "Oh, well, 
Hogwarts itself is discriminatory because only magical children go 
there" and thereby say that "Only pureblooded magical children should 
go to Hogwarts" is the same thing.  That's a classic slippery slope.

> Betsy Hp:
> Really?  I don't think I'm seeing that theme, despite the HBP 
> title.  After all, the shock of Snape's blood is that it runs 
> *against* the "it's all blood" view of Slytherin.  Instead, JKR 
> seems to be dealing with family relationships, self-knowledge, self-
> determination, and prejudice or pre-judgment.

The shock of Snape's blood is also the intense hypocrisy of a half-
blooded Death Eater, as well as the reinforcement of Voldemort's own 
irrationality in that area.  It's so fascinating how he freaks out 
when he finds out it's his mother who's the magical parent, and what 
his relatives are actually like.

The blood issue is the fundamental matrix that she's working the 
prejudice angle through.  No blood angle, then no links back to the 
founding of Hogwarts, no Heir of Slytherin mythology, no real spark 
in the pants motivation for Voldemort...no plot.

> Actually, I think JKR is a bit contradictory about her views on 
> blood lines.  Harry will understand himself only as he understands 
> his parents? Why?  They barely affected his life.  Unless she 
> *does* believe in certain inheritable traits. Plus, there's the 
> whole only someone of Lily's bloodline can protect her son.  We've 
> been told over and over again that Lily used a pure form of good 
> magic to protect her son.  If bloodlines, or an interest in them is 
> inherently bad, why is Lily's blood magic so inherently good?

Again, you're conflating two things.

Your relatives and the things you inevitably inherit from them: 
important.

A *classification* of your relatives into a category that doesn't 
matter in reality, doesn't really exist, and is harmful: bad.

I'm sorry that I really don't understand how this distinction isn't 
being made clear in the text, that the crux of the Salazar Slytherin 
originated problem is not an 'interest' in bloodlines but a 
particular way of thinking about them.

>> >>Nora: 
>> There's a massive difference here.  Harry should be more          
>> interested in his parents because of *who* they are as people...
>> <snip>
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> Why?  Harry know he's brave.  Why does he need to find out if his 
> father was as well? 

Because, as you said above, Rowling is writing a story in which the 
concrete details of inheritance and legacies are important.  Harry is 
explicitly created as someone who has inherited virtues/excellences 
from his parents.  

But none of them have to do with James being a pureblood or Lily 
being a Muggleborn.  And you just can't get around those kinds of 
classifications being written into Slytherin House by its founder 
from the start.

> Betsy Hp:
> Hufflepuff opens up to anyone willing to submit to the Hufflepuff 
> way.  (Neville or Luna would do horribly there.)  But they *all*, 
> including Slytherin, look for virtues.  Blood is a factor in 
> Slytherin, but it's not the defining factor.  I think it's as big a 
> mistake to dwell too much on the blood factor as it is to overlook 
> it.

I admit, I don't get where the Hufflepuff BDSM training camp image 
comes from, but maybe it's just me.  However, I'm just going with 
what the Sorting Hat told us in book 5.  I remember onlist it was 
quite the nasty shock to get told that bluntly that the blood issue 
was so foundational to Slytherin House. 

At least for Salazar himself, blood was a sine qua non.  The 
Hermiones of his day were unacceptable.

> Betsy Hp:
>
> Slytherin doesn't even want to confine *Hogwarts*.  It wants 
> students with a certain respect for and interest in the WW 
> traditions (a bit hard for a Muggleborn to pick up on) and a 
> certain amount of ambition and cunning in its *own* house. 

Canon for this 'respect for and interest in'?  It still excludes, by 
principle, even the most eager Muggleborn ready and willing to learn 
these traditions.  It says categorically: you are not for us! 

Maybe that's well-balanced out by the rest of Hogwarts.  I don't 
think it's healthy at all, and I suspect the house itself will have 
to deal with this legacy in an explicit way.

-Nora notes that not all Slytherin students have to or probably 
believe that they are superior because of their blood, but it's 
certainly one of the major flaws and conflicts ripping through 
wizarding society--why else would Dumbledore chew Fudge out about it?