CHAPDISC: HBP5, An Excess of Phlegm

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 144137

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, Juli <jlnbtr at y...> wrote:
>
>   CHAPTER DISCUSSIONS: 
>   Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, Chapter 5,
>   An Excess of Phlegm
>    
>    
>   ...edited...
>    
>   Discussion Questions
>    
>   1) We don't see many people who call Dumbledore by his first
> name. ..., but Molly? That's a first. How close do you think the 
> Members of the Order actually are? Molly calling him Albus makes
>  me think that all of them see each other as family, not only as 
> colleagues. What do you think?
> 

bboyminn:

I think Molly calling Dumbledore 'Albus' simply implies a social
connection and a familiarity. Also, it is somewhat controlled by the
formality of the situation. Undersome circumstances and most likely
around her children, Molly would say 'Professor Dumbledore' to remind
her kids that as Headmaster, he is to be shown respect. In less formal
situation, Molly would call him by his first name.

Molly and Albus need not be the best of friends to have dropped the
formality of addressing each other. They are simply on friendly terms.
Further, they are bonded by a common cause; defeating Voldemort and
keeping Harry alive. Even without deep social friendship, this common
bond would be reflected in sense of familiarity and first names.


   
>   2)Mollywobbles. Anyone knows what it means? Not being 
> English myself I haven't a clue about it.
>    

bboyminn:

I think to some extent 'Mollywobbles' is a made up name/word. When I
searched the Internet for it my results were swamped by Harry Potter
references, but I did find yachts and boat with that name as well as
usernames unrealted to HP. 

The closest UK word is 'collywobbles' meaning something that makes you
feel uneasy. 

In PoA pg 40 PB - Stan is talking with Harry about Azaban, and Ernie
adds '...Then Azkaban guards give me the collywobbles." In simple
terms, he is saying that the thought of the Dementors gives him the
'creeps'. 

So, I think Arthur has somewhat made up a nonsensical word based on
Molly Weasley and Molly's slight tendency to be overweight; Mollywobbles.

> 3) Arthur's greatest ambition is to discover how planes stay
> on the air. Don't wizards and witches learn any physics at all?
> Don't they –Arthur & Co- know that there are muggle books that
> can easily explain the basic concepts of aerodynamics? 
>  

bboyminn:

Having how airplanes stay in the air explained to you, doesn't
necessarily mean you understand it. I suspect very few people could
really explain it to the satisfaction of the common person. 

As to physics being taught in the wizard world, I don't think so.
Applies magic seems far more important that true science or the arts. 

As far as muggle books and bookstores, going to them hinges on having
the courage to do so. Arthur may have a fastination with the muggle
world, but it seems to me that he also has a fear of it. Much like you
might have a fear of wandering around unescorted in Africa or parts of
Asia (perhaps even Eastern Europe). Despite the fact that the muggle
world is all around him, and in his case, is not so culturally
different, it probably seems a strange, mysterious, and somewhat
foreboding place to him.
  

> 4)What's with Fleur's comment of Gabrielle? (The one when 
> she mentions Gabrielle has been talking non stop about Harry). 
> Is it a sign of what we may see in book 7, a possible 
> relationship between her and Harry? Maybe Gabrielle as a young 
> Ginny?
>

bboyminn: 

I don't remember gabrielle's exact age when we meet her, but I think
she is very young, probably hasn't even started school yet, so I don't
think we should be reading any 'relationship' implications into her
fastination with Harry. In one sense, she not only met but was rescues
by 'The Boy Who Lived'; a world famous wizard. So, yes, she may be a
bit star-struck, and may have a mild childish infatuation for the boy
who 'saved her'. But other than a joyfull fastination with a brave and
famous boy, I don't think much is implied here.

    
> 5) Which classes did Hermione actually took? And how is it 
> possible for anyone to get 12 OWLS (like Bill Weasley and 
> Barty Crouch Jr.)? Did they get Time-Turners? Or did they study
> the classes on their own without any professors' assistance? Is
> this what Hermione did?
>   

bboyminn:

I hope people in the UK will back me up on this, but Qualification
Tests and the School are separate entities. Qualifications are
certified by the government which is run independant of the schools.

So, what you took in school is unrelated to which Qualifications Tests
you take. Of course, we shouldn't lose perspective. It's pretty hard
to pass a Physics Test if you've never studied Physics. But
independant of whether you have studied Physics, you could probably
take the Physics Qualification Test. Maybe you pass; may be you don't.
But I don't think the government cares. If you want to try the test,
you can try.

So, shifting to the wizard world. People get 12 OWLs by studying on
their own and by having a natural interest or gift in the area.
Certainly Hermione could pass all the classes she took. The two
remaining classes are Divinations and Muggle Studies. She doesn't care
about Divination, and she IS a muggle, so would have no trouble
passing the Muggle Studies test.

Also, note regarding Percy (and others), Percy doesn't have to get
'Outstanding' in every OWL. Most likely he did, in all the classes he
took. But in classes where he studied on his own, he probably didn't
expect to get anything more that an 'Acceptable' in those test. Still
an 'Acceptable' is still an OWL. 

 
> 6) We all know Tonks is seriously depressed. Is her depression
> because she has lost a dear cousin, or because Remus won't 
> marry her? Or perhaps a bit of both. What do you think?
> 

bboyminn:

I think in her association with the Order and her time at Grimmauld
Place, Tonk came to admire and like both Sirius and Remus. But you
must admit that Remus's is a tragic story, certain to tug at anyone's
heartstrings. So, with Sirius lost and Remus on a dark dangerous and
very unpleasant mission, I think she felt a great deal of emotion for
both of them. However, there is nothing she can do about Sirius but
accept it and move on. But Remus is another story, for him to be in
such a dark and dangerous stituation when Tonks would have much rather
had him by her side, she must have been in a terrible state. To love,
and to know that do to attitudes and dark circumstances that the love
could never be realized, must have been estremely hard on her. 

So, while sympathy for the lost Sirius was certainly there, I think
the pain of a neither lost nor there living Remus was much greater,
especially after Remus rejected her, not based on emotions, but on the
practical considerations of his being a werewolf. That had to sting.

   
> 7)Why wasn't there a memorial, funeral, or wake for Sirius?
> I know there wasn't a body to bury, but still, those who loved
> him needed to say good-bye: they needed closure.
>

bboyminn:

I can only speculated. If nothing else, they could have all gotten
together and drank a toast in Sirius's honor. It would seem the least
they could do. 

I suspect timing had something to do with it. True there was no body,
so nothing to honor or bury, but it is also true that they would have
wanted to give Harry maximum protection. So, they rushed him back the
 Dursleys were he had the protection he needed.  Then as time passed,
in some sense, it was too late. They had all moved on. Sirius was lost
and that was that.

On a slightly different note, for those who have read my 'Through the
Veil and Back' theory, it's possible that no service was held because
JKR intends to bring Sirius back in the most spectacular and dramatic
way. True the dead are dead, never to return, but the circumstances
around Sirius's death were very unsual. Normally, a spirit/soul goes
through the Veil and leave the body behind. Perhaps, the cirumstances
of both body and soul behind the Veil is enough to allow Sirius to
come back, if he can only find a method, and that method is in my
'Through the Veil and Back' theory.


> 8) Do you think that Molly's clock with all its hands pointing
> towards mortal peril is a sign of what may happen in book 7? Will
> we be seeing more than one Weasley death? Who do you think it 
> will be? When reading this chapter I got flash-backs to Molly's 
> bogart in Grimmauld Place. Will all her worst fears come true?
> 

bboyminn:

Well, dark and dangerous times are upon us, and anything can happen. I
suspect our wildest guesses won't come close the the final chapter in
this long story. 

I don't necessarily think the Clock or the Boggart incident with Molly
is direct foreshadowing of specific events. It's more a reminder of
how dark and dangerous things have become. Though, again, dark and
dangerous times... certainly some Weasleys may not make it through.
But I think what we are seen is general mood and not specific
foreshadowing.

   
> 9) Why do you think Percy still won't come back home? ... 
> Is it just a pride thing?
> 

bboyminn:

In the past, I've had plent to say on this subject. To some extent, I
think Percy is justified in his anger and estrangement. I further
believe that Mr. Weasley handled the stituation VERY poorly. If he had
been more diplomatic, everyone could have walked away, if not happy,
then at least satisfied.

It's difficult for Percy to return with Fred and George (and now
Ginny) so dead set against him. Molly would certianly welcome him
back, as we see in HBP, and I think he and Arthur could come to an
understanding that would at least bring a truce between them. Even
Harry, I think, would be willing to forgive and forget. However, with
Fred, George, and Ginny actively fighting against Percy's return, it
is going to be a difficult task.   

I think if they got a reasonable mediator between them to keep things
from getting out of hand, they could probably settle their differences
and move on. I have speculated, though not with great enthusiasm, that
perhaps Harry would be that mediator. I suspect Harry will need the
cooperation of the Ministry, and Percy would be a good person to
approach to get the ball rolling.

I don't think what is holding them apart at this point is so much
Pride as it is just plain stubbornness and pigheadedness.

>    
> 10) Didn't Bill ask for his parents' permission before he took
> Fleur to live with them? Or are the Weasleys so polite that they
> keep their feeling about Fleur bottled up to protect Bill?
>    

bboyminn:

To the specific questions - YES and YES. No one really likes their
in-laws. Just because one son and another daughter fit together
doesn't mean the rest of the families do.

I'm sure Bill made the suggestion of Fleur staying for a few days, and
Molly politely, but reluctantly, accepted. Though she may have her own
alternate preferences for Bill's love life, I think she is somewhat
resigned to the fact that it is out of her control. So now she is just
along for the ride.

Just a few thoughts.

Steve/Bboyminn