Sorting Hat as Horcrux?

[mercurybluesmng]

No: HPFGUIDX 144154

> Carol responds:
> Sorry for being unclear; I meant that the card reads "defeated," 
not
> "killed," and I'm pretty sure that if DD had been the one to kill
> Grindelwald, the card would have stated the fact directly. I think
> that the date 1945, the same year that Tom Riddle left Hogwarts, is
> important. (JKR herself has made the connection between a war in 
the
> Wizarding World and the Muggles' World War II. How that ties in 
with
> Tom, I don't know.)

MercuryBlue:
1) I didn't say I think Dumbledore did kill Grindelwald, just that 
the possibility is there.

2) In that same interview, a few lines later, JKR says that she 
thinks Muggle and wizarding wars feed each other. So what Muggle 
wars could the wizarding wars of 1960ish-1981 and 1995 on correspond 
to? I can't think of any, myself. Which leads me to the conclusion 
that the mention of 1945, if it has anything to do with WWII at all, 
is there to point out the Hitler-Voldemort parallels.

Carol:
> Grindelwald is mentioned not once but twice in
> SS/PS (chapters 6 and 13)

MercuryBlue:
Harry seeing the card and Harry seeing a copy of the card. That 
reads more like one mention than two to me.

Carol:
> and JKR did her hemming and hawing bit when
> asked in an interview whether he was important, which almost 
certainly
> means that he is.

MercuryBlue:
Or that she did an oops and is hoping that we won't notice, or that 
she's throwing out a red herring that she's hoping we'll chase off 
into the sunset, thereby missing completely the bombshells she's 
planted elsewhere that'll go off in Book 7.

Carol:
> ...her comments, which to me imply pretty clearly that we'll get
> the back-story on GW in Book 7...

MercuryBlue:
Maybe. Maybe not. Since we haven't heard a single word about him 
since that trading card (and wizards live longer than Muggles, and 
Muggles remember WWII and Hitler quite clearly, and talk about them 
quite often), I'm betting on not.

Carol:
> No other wizard
> whose name has come up in the books fits the bill as the one both 
LV
> and DD knew of who had made at least one Horcrux.

MercuryBlue:
Point. But, is it necessarily true that they both knew of the same 
person?

> Carol earlier:
> > > Its [the Sorting Hat's] opinions come from "the founders
> themselves." And sincerity (from a different interview
> http://www.quick-quote-quill.org/articles/2004/0304-wbd.htm ) 
would be
> an odd virtue in a hat infested or possessed by a fragment of Tom
> Riddle's soul.
> > 
> MercuryBlue responded:
> > Yes, it would. Just as odd as the virtues of courage and loyalty 
in
> a kid with a fragment of Voldemort (of his soul?) glued to his
> forehead. Accept the one, and you have to accept the possibility of
> the other, however slim that possibility may or may not be.
> 
> Carol again:
> But I *don't* accept the one. I'm not sure why you think that I
> believe Harry has part of Voldie's soul in him. I've actively 
argued
> *against* the Harry the Horcrux theories.

MercuryBlue:
I must've missed those arguments. Still, I didn't say Harry 
necessarily IS a Horcrux, or that his scar is (though that is my 
opinion of the matter), just that the scar is a fragment of 
Voldemort, of his power and possibly his personality, and certainly 
influences Harry's personality (CAPSLOCK!Harry). The logical 
conclusion that the scar is a Horcrux is irrelevant to the point 
under discussion.

Carol:
> As for Harry's courage and loyalty are
> apparently inborn, inherited from his parents as he inherits his
> Quidditch skill from James. Those virtues have nothing to do with
> Voldemort and were IMO present in Harry (as undeveloped potential)
> before Godric's Hollow. The one has nothing to do with the other.

MercuryBlue:
Bingo.

> > MercuryBlue:
> > (What tiara?)
> 
> Carol:
> The tiara that Harry used to mark the place where he hid the HBP's
> Potions book in the Room of Requirement. (I've speculated that 
Harry
> might go back to the RoR looking for the book, find the Mirror of
> Erised there, look in it and see himself finding a Horcrux--that 
same
> tiara. Just a thought, a "shortcut" to finding the Horcruxes 
without
> taking a whole book to search for them.) Since the tiara is in
> Hogwarts, it could be the missing Ravenclaw Horcrux. For all we 
know,
> Tom could have placed it there for safekeeping (having hidden it 
under
> his cloak) when he went for the DADA interview. At any rate, it's a
> valuable object mentioned for no apparent reason in HBP, so it's
> probably either a clue or a red herring. (I hope it's a clue!)

MercuryBlue:
Clever idea about the Mirror. I disagree about the value of the 
tiara. It's certainly possible that it's very valuable, maybe that 
it was Rowena's and has become a Horcrux, but it IS in Landfill!Room-
of-Requirement. The mental image I got was of this dollar-store 
jewelry set I got for my then-five-year-old sister for her birthday 
a while back. Cheap plastic, lasted all of a week, but she loved it. 
The tiara in the Room probably isn't cheap plastic, I don't think 
most wizards know what that is, but it certainly looks to me like 
it's worth about the same.

> MercuryBlue:
> > Why would 1971 be the turning point? We have no clue what he 
looked
> > like between 1957 and 1995, only that at some point in there he 
got
> > uglier, having made another Horcrux (or two?).
> 
> Carol again:
> I should have said 1970--eleven years before Godric's Hollow--
which is
> when LV returned to England and started recruiting followers. 
(1971 is
> the year that MWPP and Severus snape started Hogwarts.)

MercuryBlue:
He was certainly in England in 1957, followers in tow. And within a 
few years he was worrying the British Ministry enough for Fudge to 
say in Jul 1996 that they'd been looking for him for thirty years. 
That's a bit before 1970.

Carol:
> If you're not familiar with the Timeline at the Lexicon, you may 
want
> to check it out. While it's probably not 100 percent accurate, it's
> quite close to the mark given JKR's known problems with "maths."
<SNIP>



MercuryBlue:
I like the timeline and backstory theory at www.redhen-
publications.com/Potterverse.html better.