Hagrid and Snape's teaching method

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 144196

mysmacek
 No, he was not. 

Magpie:

As someone on staff of the school, he is representing the school.  
An adult is an authority simply by being an adult.  It's the same 
authority Hagrid has when he takes Harry to Diagon Alley or brings 
him to the Durlseys, or supervises the kids' detentions.  Ron is 11 
and Hagrid is, like, 58.  I get that the WW is different from our 
own.  This does not seem to be one of the differences.  His being 
forbidden to do magic has no bearing on the situation.  Even if he's 
just supposed to be the kids' friend the joke that Hagrid is one of 
those jerk pet owners who sees a kid get bitten and then claims the 
dragon is the one who was wronged!

The WW is full of adults who act irresponsibly.  I don't think 
that's supposed to be because that's the culture of the WW.  I think 
the idea is that sometimes adults let children down, so children 
have to take care of themselves.

Mysmacek:

We do not see anyone from trio complaining (even
> just Harry to himself), do we?

Magpie;

Yes, actually we have Ron complaining.  He complains that the thing 
bit him and Hagrid just yelled at him for scaring it--he seems to 
the situation the way I do.  And then Ron covers up for Hagrid, 
something plenty of modern children would do, and something Hagrid 
should not be asking him to do.  The kids do not hold it against him 
because they seem, even at 11, to recognize that Hagrid is 
childish.  Which is fine, but is also exactly what I'm saying.

mysmacek:
> 
> Generally, I think that the problem is that you apply modern 
standards
> for Hagrid's classes. 

Magpie:

As I've shown about a dozen times now, no, I do not.  I have never 
said that it was a big deal that Draco got hurt or that his injury 
was wildly serious by WW's standards or that students never wind up 
in the infimary in any other class. I simply said--and continue to 
say--that part of the scene here is to establish Hagrid's weak spots 
as a teacher.  Weak spots that are hammered on in later books.  Just 
as Binn's are and Snape's are.  Weak spots that the kids, even the 
Trio, see.

mysmacek:

Draco *could* have been seriously injured, but
> he probably was not - remember, it's the world where uncle Algy 
holds
> Neville out of the window by his leg - and we haven't heard of him
> landing in Azkaban :-)

Magpie:

Sure--but the difference here is that Uncle Algy is at least 
acknowledged to have had a part in the scene, which is the only 
thing I'm asking of Hagrid.

mysmacek: 
> 
> By your standards, mme Hooch would be even more guilty, as she 
clearly
> lets students fly high above grounds with little safeties. What if
> some Sprout's mandragoras were just a bit more mature? Grubbly 
Plank's
> bowtruckles would happily gouge your eyes out. Triwizard 
tournament is
> clearly lethal. Etc, etc. 

Magpie:

And why do none of these things get the reaction *within canon* that 
Hagrid's classes do?  Because Hagrid has his own personality as 
teacher, just as all the other teachers do.  Again, I have never 
made it an issue that no kid should ever be hurt in class.  I have 
simply said that part of the author's conception of Hagrid is that 
he has certain problems when it comes to authority and perspective 
on dangerous beasts.  I see absolutely nothing to disprove this, 
especially with defenses of how Hagrid is more of a friend than an 
authority figure.  Yes, he is.  I agree.  Sometimes that's a flaw.

--m