Cultural standards for Snape abusiveness/Speculations about forgiveness

[Ceridwen]

No: HPFGUIDX 144425

Alla:
> 
> Actually, I do not disagree with you here or so I think today :-). 
I 
> absolutely think that moving past Snape would be a healthy thing to 
> do for Harry.
> 
> So, if you are saying that Harry wil forgive Snape for himself 
> without ever saying it to Snape face - ABSOLUTELY, it is a good 
thing 
> to do,IMO. 

Ceridwen:
If Snape dies in book 7, that may be the only thing Harry can do.  I 
tend toward Harry having to dump all of his hate and anger in order 
to realize the 'love power' Dumbledore kept reassuring him, and us, 
is necessary for the defeat of Voldemort.  Love can't work through 
hate.  Hate is more agressive, and its excitement is much more 
seductive, while love is calm and can only grow, IMO, in a beneficial 
environment.  Like the difference between flowers and weeds.

Alla:
> Say, if Harry thinks - this poor miserable git had a such 
> a tough life, he really had not know any better than to do all 
those 
> awful things to me, he deserves my pity, sure why not, as long as 
> Snape does not know about it, but is it really forgiveness or is it 
> simply Harry moving on?

Ceridwen:
Good question!  My opinion is, if Harry forgives Snape but never 
tells him, it's just Harry moving on.  It's tantamount to forgetting 
about it, or having it pale as time passes.  The balm is for Harry 
alone.  Nothing is accomplished, beyond the very real need for Harry 
to 'let go and let love', to paraphrase an old churchy slogan that 
was in use ages ago.  Since Harry's 'The Chosen One', he has more on 
him to not only defeat the immediate evil, but to go one better and 
try to start a healing in the WW.  The most obvious and stunning 
example would be forgiving the lesser evils of his life, publicly and 
to those people's faces.  Without their asking leave, without their 
even seeing that they need it.  You know I don't think Snape's 
outside the bounds of behavior in their world, but there are others - 
Umbridge, as everyone keeps mentioning, Bellatrix, Wormtail (who was 
the next worst to Voldemort and led more directly to James' and 
Lily's deaths than Snape), the Dursleys, and probably more.  
Forgiving in his own heart is only half the step.  An important half, 
sure, but just one step.  IMO.

Alla:
> I speculate that Remus moved on from being angry at person who 
bitten 
> him, does it mean that he really forgave the one who gave him such 
an 
> awful disease?

Ceridwen:
I don't think he forgave him.  I do think he's tried to move on.  
But, from his reactions in HBP, I think he does still have issues 
that he hasn't addressed.  Just the overall feeling I get, nothing 
quotable.

*(snip)*
Alla:
> Having said all that, I do think that telling it to Snape's face 
> equals absolution of Snape's sins AND for that type of forgiveness 
I 
> think that Snape should ask for , because IMO it IS a very nice 
thing 
> for Snape to know that the person whom he helped to become an 
orphan 
> and tormented for a long time in essense tells him you are forgiven.

Ceridwen:
I disagree.  Telling it to Snape's face is the same thing as invoking 
love of Sirius and making it impossible for Voldemort to possess 
him.  It's a way of informing the person, in this case Snape if it 
were to happen, that Harry does see the things Snape did as 
offensive, but not binding to him now.  It informs Snape that he has 
no power over Harry, except that which Harry will allow.  It tells 
Snape that Harry has grown out of his childhood grudges and is a 
fully-grown man, capable of determining his own destiny, while Snape 
is still caught in a cycle of remorse and hatred over James.

It also publicly solidifies Harry's entrance to adulthood, his 
leadership position in the WW, and extends a challenge to everyone to 
emulate, so the rift of the past will be healed.  Snape didn't ask?  
Then Harry is not doing it grudgingly, but out of love for a fellow 
human.  Harry would be more than shaking the dust off his feet and 
moving on.  He would be forgiving in the only real way it exists.  
IMO.

And, I'm sure there are people who have things against Harry, that he 
might not even know about.  Draco might have something against him 
for the Sectumsempra incident, for instance.  I think that part of 
Draco's coming into his own will be to forgive Harry for that, and 
not seek revenge.  I think that will be the only way Harry and Draco 
might be able to work together, and I do think they'll have to, since 
Dumbledore held out promise to Draco, and Draco seemed to be 
considering it.  Draco will be reluctant to join up with Harry if 
he's got that grudge.  But IMO, the WW will be better if they do.  
Harry might feel that, since he felt so awful after the incident, and 
since he did get detention, he's absolved.  But he can only be 
absolved fully if Draco forgives him.

Ditto Snape, regarding Harry's forgiveness.  (I can also imagine 
Harry apologizing, once he knows how Draco's been feeling.)

Sorry for going off on a tangent!  But it's got me thinking.

Ceridwen, hitting the 'send' button before she thinks of anything 
more to add!