How many times Snape saved Harry/Speculations about forgiveness WAS: Cultura

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 144485

> Ceridwen:
> Good question!  My opinion is, if Harry forgives Snape but never 
> tells him, it's just Harry moving on.  It's tantamount to 
forgetting 
> about it, or having it pale as time passes.  The balm is for Harry 
> alone.  Nothing is accomplished, beyond the very real need for 
Harry 
> to 'let go and let love', to paraphrase an old churchy slogan that 
> was in use ages ago. 

Alla:

Well, yeah, I agree with you - it IS moving on, IMO and it could 
benefit Harry, absolutely. I was arguing that  such thing does not 
necessarily equal forgiveness and that forgiveness holds very real 
benefits for Snape, that is why I guess I was in essence disagreeing 
with Magpie that REAL forgiveness will benefit Harry and Harry 
alone. IMO of course.

> Ceridwen:
> I disagree.  Telling it to Snape's face is the same thing as 
invoking 
> love of Sirius and making it impossible for Voldemort to possess 
> him.  It's a way of informing the person, in this case Snape if it 
> were to happen, that Harry does see the things Snape did as 
> offensive, but not binding to him now.  It informs Snape that he 
has 
> no power over Harry, except that which Harry will allow.  It tells 
> Snape that Harry has grown out of his childhood grudges and is a 
> fully-grown man, capable of determining his own destiny, while 
Snape 
> is still caught in a cycle of remorse and hatred over James.

Alla:

You write beautifully, Ceridwen and you know I came to the point 
where I am trying to figure out what I am really disagreeing with in 
the "forgiveness angle" as a plot development to end Harry/Snape 
relationship.

While Lupinlore and I seem to agree on what we indeed want to see 
happen at the end, I guess in essence it comes to me having more 
faith in JKR writing abilities than he does. :-) Sorry, Lupinlore.


I believe that JKR could write Harry forgiving Snape quite 
satisfying and the fact that I want to see Snape suffer and 
painfully does not really matter in the long run.

I guess what I REALLY disagree with is the argument that Harry HAS 
TO forgive Snape and I am not even responding to your argument, but 
to this thread in general.

I think that Harry owes Snape absolutely nothing, whether he is DD!M 
man or not. If Harry CHOOSES to forgive Snape, that is great, if he 
chooses to hate him forever because of everything Snape done to him, 
I don't think that it makes Harry any less of human being than if he 
would forgive Snape. I think it is Harry's absolute right to feel 
whatever he wants towards Snape, all things considered.

I don't think Harry would be any less adult if he chooses to say 
witness Snape execution, if he is going to be executed for killing 
Dumbledore and being happy about it ( NO, I don't really think Harry 
would ever do that, just speculating here) than if he will absolve 
Snape of his sins.

Oh, and before anyone will respond that Snape also had a right to 
feel anything he wanted about Harry, I COMPLETELY agree with it. He 
did. What he had no right IMO is to ACT on his hatred towards Harry 
and for that I think Jo will punish him.

Frankly, I think today that moving on would be perfect solution for 
Harry - as in forgiving Snape in his heart, since he indeed knew no 
better and it is not Harry's place to judge him or something like 
that, but without giving Snape a satisfaction of ever hearing it.

But again, I believe that they will have a confrontation with third 
party or not. IMO of course.




Ceridwen:
> And, I'm sure there are people who have things against Harry, that 
he 
> might not even know about.  Draco might have something against him 
> for the Sectumsempra incident, for instance. 

Alla:

Well, yes of course there are people who have something against 
Harry, but I think that in your particular example Draco has a lot 
LESS right to feel indignant about what Harry did, because even 
though Harry committed absolutely stupid, idiotic act, Draco was the 
ATTACKER here, so while he may have issues with Harry about it among 
other things, IF Draco ever comes to evaluating this accident 
honestly, which I am personally doubting, I hope he will accept his 
share of responsibility for it.


> > Pippin:
> > According to Quirrell, he'd have managed to have Harry off his 
broom
> > before Hermione got there if Snape hadn't been muttering a 
> > countercurse.
> 
> Amiable Dorsai:
> Yeah, he says that.  Might even be true.  Might even have been 
able to
> keep both twins from catching him.  Alright, Snape gets a doughnut.

Alla:

You know, Amiable Dorsai, your post made me spill my tea on the 
keyboard , I was laughing so much. But why why would you give Snape 
whole doughnut here? For doing what any teacher should have done, 
IMO? It is not like he met Harry while vacationing somewhere and 
saved Harry there. Harry was on the school grounds, he was playing 
in the school tournament. I don't see Dumbledore demanding extra 
doughnut for saving Harry during Qudditch tournament in PoA. :-) 
Half a doughnut from me for recognizing the Dark curse earlier than 
anybody else did. Oops, he must have acquired this expertise in very 
questionable ways.

Pippin:
> > He rescued Harry, Ron, Hermione and Sirius who were unconscious
> > and would have been defenseless if the werewolf or the dementors 
> > returned.
> 
> Amiable Dorsai:
> Eh, Slughorn would have done as much.  Or Filch.  No doughnut.

Alla:

More like rotten tomato from me here. Going for revenge first, IMO 
does not imply noble motives.

> Amiable Dorsai:
<SNIP>
> The problem with having Snape guard my back is that I'd never be 
sure
> I didn't need someone to guard my back from *him*.
> 
> I hope he likes the doughnuts; Harry made them.


Alla : 
MAHAHAHA. Exactly. Thanks for saying it.

JMO of course,

Alla