Scapegoating Slytherin - The Moral Majority / Draco's bigotry and leadership

[a_svirn]

No: HPFGUIDX 144517

> Betsy Hp:
> Snape provided Umbridge with veritaserum.  Of course, it was fake, 
> but she didn't know that.

a_svirn:
And it was at the very end when she was a headmistress. Well after 
the I-squad was formed. And Snape did not *assist*, he carried out 
an order. And very uncooperative he was. 
 
> Betsy Hp:
> No, McGonagall was suggesting Harry think like... well, a 
Slytherin, 
> and cunningly take on Umbridge with the underground DA Club.  

a_svirn:
This is the most unorthodox interpretation of her words. 
 
> Betsy Hp:
> Umbridge was doing away with education and replacing it with 
> propaganda.  That's directly opposite Hogwarts' purpose, and 
> therefore a direct opposite of what the Founders' created.

a_svirn:
We were discussing whether or not she was trying to do away the 
houses. Canon suggests that she was not.

> Betsy Hp:
> Common sense supports that.  And pretty much the entire series for 
> that matter.  Secrets are very hard to keep at Hogwarts.  We learn 
> that in the first book.

a_svirn:
Depends on secrets. And on who keeps them. 


> Betsy Hp:
> Cheat!  Plus, not true.  Harry's great but he ain't all that.  He 
> may *become* Voldemort's counterpart, but he's not there yet.  If 
it 
> *were* true, Draco and Snape wouldn't bother Harry a bit.

a_svirn:
I don't see why. 

> Betsy Hp:
> There's no such thing as a house compartment.  And there are ten 
> Slytherins in Draco's class.  They weren't all squeezed in there.  
> So why was Blaise?  And why put up with sitting next to Crabbe and 
> Goyle?  Especially if he held Draco in contempt.

a_svirn:
I did not say that he held Draco in contempt. Nor did I imply that 
there is such thing as a house compartment. Slytherins do hang out 
together, so why should's Zabini sit in the same compartment as 
Draco?

> Betsy Hp:
> Rereading the scene I'm not sure where you get "gleeful".  
Actually, 
> I'd say Blaise was fairly indifferent throughout the scene.  I do 
> interpert him telling Draco that Slughorn isn't interested in 
Death 
> Eaters (or the children thereof) as a way of telling Draco that it 
> wasn't him, it was his family's politics.  Mainly because it gets 
> Draco off the subject.  I could be reading too much into it.  But 
I 
> really don't see any evidence of Blaise attempting to and enjoying 
> hurting Draco's feelings.

a_svirn:
Alright, I retract "gleeful", because even if he was gleeful he 
didn't show it. However the whole scene was about two boys picking 
on each other with Zabini winning every encounter. First Draco with 
his usual air of someone who owned the place asked Zabini to report 
about Slughorn. Zabini obliged and with the true Slythrin subtlety 
managed to convey that despite Draco's claims to the contrary he, 
Zabini, is much better connected. That did not fail to rattle Draco; 
first he tried for disdain, then with a truly pathetic childishness 
for a 16 year old he tried to chalk it on the misunderstanding. When 
Zabini further depress his pretensions, saying that Slughorn was not 
interested in DE, Draco tried to invoke Voldemort's authority to add 
to his consequence. Whereupon Zabini "scathingly" pointed out that 
the Dark Lord can't possibly be interested in the likes of Draco. 
Not what you might call a friendly exchange. Certainly there is 
nothing in Zabini's manner to suspect that he sees Draco as a leader 
of any kind. 
 
> Betsy Hp:
> Harry hung out with Romilda in the Gryffindor common room?  I 
don't 
> recall them *ever* sitting together.  And that's what Harry saw on 
> his map: Draco together with Pansy and Blaise.  Something one 
would 
> *not* see of Harry and Romilda, but one would see with Harry and 
> Ron, or Harry and Hermione, or even Harry and Neville.

a_svirn:
Wasn't it in the common room where she offered him sweets and 
gillywater? If  a casual observer saw them on the map (and even in 
the flesh) they might come to some very interesting conclusions. 
Especially, since Harry took the sweets. 

> Betsy Hp:
> You're rather sure of this.  Why?  I mean, what's the big deal 
about 
> Blaise being friendly with Draco?  I don't get what's so offensive 
> about the idea.

a_svirn:
It's not offensive in the least. It's just that I got the feeling 
that Blaise dislikes Draco. 
 
> Betsy Hp:
> Well, yes.  I'm not sure what your point is here.  Unless you're 
> saying that Draco has (had) no chance.  Which is a rather harsh 
> judgment to make of an eleven year old.  Or even a sixteen year 
> old.  At least, IMO.

a_svirn:
The point I am making is that Draco's being raised a bigot does not 
makes him any less of a bigot. All bigots get their bigotry 
somewhere. It's not an inherent trait. 

> Betsy Hp:
> Where are you getting that?  Why would you think Draco doesn't 
have 
> the two firmly tied together?  Voldemort is all about driving out 
> the non-purebloods and returning the WW to its former glory.  Or, 
at 
> least, that's what Draco's been told.  That's why he was so giddy 
in 
> CoS.  The bigots of the WW, the really overt bigots anyway, are 
the 
> Death Eaters.

a_svirn:
And where do you see the contradiction? Yes, Voldemort is about 
getting the WW to its former glory. So what? So it turned out that 
he's more concerned with his own mad schemes than with the WW glory. 
Merlin, he even didn't appreciate the Malfoy family! Imagine that! 
But then, if you but think about his own origins
 Should have found 
a pureblood for a leader, after all. 

 
> Betsy Hp:
> Draco didn't know that.  And unless Lucius wanted to sign his 
son's 
> (and his own) death warrent, he would never have shared his doubts 
> with Draco.
> 

a_svirn:
And how is that to the point? I said that disappointment in 
Voldemort does not necessarily lead to a disappointment in the 
pureblood ideology. And further added that it didn't work out that 
way with Lucius. 
 
> Betsy Hp:
> Lucius is not Draco. Lucius was raised in a time *before* the rise 
> of Voldemort.  He was recruited into the Death Eaters.  So his 
> bigotry came first.  Draco was raised after Voldemort and so all 
of 
> the views he's been spoonfed have been tied up neatly with "and 
the 
> Dark Lord will make it all good again".  You show one belief to be 
a 
> lie, I'm not sure why it's unreasonable to think Draco may start 
> questioning the other beliefs. 

a_svirn:
It is not unreasonable. It is a possibility. One of many other 
possibilities.