[HPforGrownups] Cultural standards, nasty teachers, abused children

[Shaun Hately]

No: HPFGUIDX 144761

On 14 Dec 2005 at 13:06, Irene Mikhlin wrote:

> I wonder if Snape had read it before he started his
> teaching career. It certainly seems that he had
> adopted the following quote for his pedagogical motto:
> "The schoolmaster who imagines he is loved and trusted
> by his boys is in fact mimicked and laughed at behind
> his back. An adult who does not seem dangerous nearly
> always seems ridiculous."

I've said it before, but I think it bears repeating. I was a victim 
of quite severe abuse as a child both at the hands of other students 
and, in my view at the hands of teachers - though many would disagree 
on this last point as the teachers who abused me to the point that I 
was suicidally depressed were extremely modern teachers who embraced 
all the wonderfully sounding ideas about treating children with 
respect, and who came across to most people as really, really nice. 
The type of teachers that I suspect (though don't know) that many of 
those who label Snape as a child abuser, would probably consider to 
be good teachers.

On the other hand, I had some very Snape like teachers - two in 
particular, one of whom made Severus Snape seem like Maria 
Montessori. These teachers were nasty. When a student made a mistake 
in their classes, they were positively scathing in their comments 
about that student (and unfortunately for me... well, they knew I was 
supposedly very bright, and so when I did poorly they assumed that it 
was mostly out of laziness and they were particularly savage in their 
commentary. They were often right, by the way, in their judgement - I 
was rather lazy in their subject at time - they both taught the same 
subject - but at the time, I did sometimes feel rather picked on). 
Some of the things they said to me were pretty nasty - one of them in 
particular. At least as bad as what we see directed at Harry and 
Neville by Snape. And added to that, corporal punishment was 
available and was used (this was at an Australian independent school 
run on traditional British Public School lines in the late 1980s and 
early 1990s - fairly recently and even closer in time to Harry's 
experiences at Hogwarts).

I regard both these men as good teachers - certainly not as child 
abusers. They weren't my *best* teachers (my best teachers, my 
favourite teachers seem to me closer to the McGonnagal model than the 
Snape), but they were pretty close. Their classes weren't pleasant 
experiences for me. I was often afraid of them. I was sometimes very 
afraid, and some of my experiences in their classes quite upset me.

But they taught me *very* well. Very effectively. They taught nearly 
all their students very well, and very effectively - and that was 
their job.

And that is Snape's job.

It's not a teachers job to be nice and kind - there's certainly 
nothing inherently wrong with a teacher being nice and kind, and if 
they can be nice and kind and an effective teacher at the same time, 
that's great. But it's not a requirement.

A teacher's job is to *teach* children. Not to coddle them. Not to 
make them feel good about themselves. Not to boost their self esteem. 
It's to teach them.

[Now, before anyone reading this becomes terrified at the fact that I 
am studying to be a teacher, let me say that I do think it's 
important for children to feel good about themselves, and I do think 
self esteem is important - it's just that I think those things have 
to come from within the child - the teachers responsibility towards 
those things is to teach the child as effectively as possible, so the 
child achieves - and from that achievement develops self esteem - 
it's something they earn, not something a teacher gives them. And 
I'll tell you - that's what I got from my Snapish teachers - because 
when I got a high mark from them, you'd better believe I *knew* I'd 
earned it.]

Does Snape effectively teach his classes? I think the evidence is 
there that he does. He has high standards and a significant number of 
his students meet them - even Umbridge who seems to be looking for 
excuses to degrade the staff, acknowledges Snape's general success. 
Not all his students meet his standards - but frankly, not all of 
McGonnagal's students meet her high standards. That's the thing about 
high standards - if they mean anything, not all students will reach 
them.

Just because a teacher is sometimes nasty to his or her students does 
not make them a child abuser. And, frankly, I personally sometimes 
get quite annoyed when I see the view that Snape is a child abuser 
and the reasons that people hold that view. Now, there's nothing 
wrong with that - people are entitled to their own opinions and I 
don't expect to never be annoyed by things people write on such a 
large list - but I do find it annoying. Because I was a victim of 
child abuse - of educational child abuse. This isn't just my own 
opinion either. I've been asked to write articles about it, to speak 
about it, and I've even written a chapter of a book about it. The 
abuse I suffered was severe and it's acknowledged as such by experts 
on child abuse, it's not just my own opinion.

And the Snape like teachers I had were among the teachers who helped 
to *heal* me of the effects of that abuse. Seeing a similar teacher, 
even in fiction, being labelled as an abuser themselves is moderately 
upsetting, I have to say.

Part of the reason why Harry Potter appealed to me from the moment I 
first read the books is because I related so much to Harry in many 
ways. I had to grow up having many of my needs neglected by 
unthinking or uncaring people - not my parents, thank God - but many 
of my teachers. I was abused and neglected - for most of my childhood 
not badly, but there was one year of total hell.

And then, suddenly, I found myself virtually plucked out of that 
situation. And sent to a different school, a school radically 
different from anything I had experienced before. A school that gave 
me what I needed.

http://www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/schooldays.html

No, it wasn't Hogwarts - but it was something close to it, for me, 
and it was utterly different from all my schooling up until that 
time. And it did come from the British Public School tradition, which 
I also feel very strongly that Hogwarts draws on.

http://www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/HSWW.html

Like I say, though, part of the reason Harry Potter appealed to me 
was because of the school environment we see at Hogwarts - which is 
quite different from the general run of most 'modern' schooling. The 
students are taught by old fashioned methods, by fairly strict 
methods, they are expected to work hard, they are not coddled by 
their teachers. Some of their teachers are nice. Some are nasty. Some 
are effective. Some are hopeless. The kids are just expected to get 
on with things.

They are not shielded from unpleasantness. This is a school where 
detention can involve going into a forest inhabited by dangerous 
magical beasts.

If a student is hurt, the injury is dealt with - and then the child 
is expected to get on with things.

And, incidentally, Hogwarts does seem to have some standards in terms 
of what is and isn't acceptable with regards to students. Whipping 
seems to be banned until Umbridge attempts to restore it (which in 
some ways, in some views, puts Hogwarts ahead of British education - 
at the time the Harry Potter novels seem to be set, corporal 
punishment was still legal in private schools in Britain and a few 
hundred schools reportedly still made some use of it), and teachers 
are forbidden to transfigure students as a punishment (though it is 
interesting that McGonnagal views Moody/Crouches transfiguration of 
Draco as wrong, but doesn't seem to object to the bouncing!)

And they are expected to learn. They go into classrooms and they are 
expected to deal with McGonnagal's high expectations, and Binn's 
boring teacher, and Trelawney's eccentricities, with Defence Against 
the Dark Arts teachers who reek of garlic, or are only interested in 
self promotion, or who perform illegal curses in front of them - and 
sometimes on them, on another who simply expects them to copy out 
page after page of work. And they are expected to deal with the fact 
that they have a nasty Potions teacher.

It's up to them to learn - because that is what they are there for.

And, believe it or not - that's the type of education that worked for 
me. When five previous schools had largely failed me educationally. 
It is what works for some kids.

And a couple - and only a couple - of my good teachers were very 
Snape like indeed. And to see people labelling them child abusers by 
proxy - well, it hurts. Especially as, believe me, I do know what 
child abuse by an educator can be like.

But - like I say, I believe people have a right to their opinions - 
and that's all I am expressing here is mine. What worries me a bit 
though is the idea that somehow JKR is failing in some duty if she 
doesn't first of all agree with the opinions of some people on what 
is and isn't child abuse, but seondly and more importantly, doesn't 
somehow deal with this in the text.

I've been interested in education all my adult life. It's a passion 
of mine - and it's why I am studying to be a teacher now having spent 
the last three years studying for an education degree. I am already 
considered to be an expert on some areas of education, and am 
published in the field. I mention this because I do have strong views 
on education - and let me tell you, in terms of those views, I do 
have some rather significant concerns about some of the issues I see 
in the Harry Potter books. I'll just address one of them briefly.

I find it somewhat disturbing that while students at Hogwarts do 
sometimes have to pay a price for their misbehaviour, JKR quite often 
shows us her major characters misbehaving and getting away with it. 
>From my perspective as somebody interested in education, this is 
actually quite disturbing in such a popular series of childrens 
books. Kids reading these books may be coming away from them with the 
idea that it's easy to break rules, and that school rules really 
aren't that important, and that it's OK to avoid and escape 
punishment if you can.

Now I'm not obsessed with this view or anything but it is a genuine 
concern, and from my perspective, educationally speaking, I would 
prefer that it didn't happen as often as it does.

Take - Fred and George's escape scene in Order of the Phoenix. I 
*love* that scene. It's one of the funniest scenes I have ever read 
in the books. And in terms of the story it makes perfect sense and in 
terms of Fred and George's characters it makes perfect sense - 
they're not idiots who are going to be martyrs to Shaun Hately's 
sense of educational justice.

But my views do mean that even as I agree that that that scene is 
hilarious and appropriate to the characters involved - it still 
annoys me a bit as yet another example of students escaping a 
punishment that they have earned (and, yes, I do think they have 
earned it - I understand why they did what they did, and in many 
ways, it's an heroic act - but it's still a violation of the school 
rules, and true heroes accept that sometimes doing the right thing 
means paying a price).

*But* - and here's the thing - I understand that JKR is driven by the 
story she wants to tell. She writes what she needs to write to tell 
the story she wants to tell. And I think it would be utterly absurd 
of me to expect her to worry about the issue I have raised in writing 
her story.

And I have to say that I think that is the same attitude that is 
being expressed by those who believe Snape is a child abuser - and 
who expect JKR to somehow deal with this, or they will feel she's 
somehow failed in some way. Even if Snape is a child abuser, 
expecting JKR to deal with that seems to me very odd. Now she may 
choose to if she feels Snape is abusive - within in the context of 
her story, she may decide this is something she wants to address - 
and that's fine - it'd be a perfectly valid decision on her part. But 
it should only happen if the author needs it to happen for their 
vision to be expressed.

As I say, I had Snape like teachers - and I thank God that I did, 
because they were among the teachers who helped healed me of much of 
the damage that some very 'nice', very 'kind', and very 'caring' 
teachers had done to me.

A couple of years ago now, while I was meeting with one of my old 
teachers - the most Snape like of them all - I mentioned the fact 
that I quite routinely compared him to Snape online (our relationship 
today is a lot different from that we had for most of the time I was 
at school, so I could get away with that). He acknowledged the 
similarities, and he sent me a little statement he said I could share 
that described the way he sees things.

"I am the best Classics Master in this country. I am an extremely 
effective teacher. What I am not is warm and cuddly. I don't know how 
to be. But I do know how to turn obnoxious adolescent boys into 
people capable of appreciating the combined culture of 25 centuries. 
Personally I think that's worth doing. If I can't do it without 
making a few boys cry. Tough. They'll thank me for it as adults. Or 
they'll hate me. Either way, they'll be better for it."

Yesterday, the top VCE (the educational qualification awarded in my 
state to students who are completing their last year of school that 
determines their university study options) were published in the 
newspaper here.

Two of the top four students in the subject he teaches at VCE level 
for the entire state were his students.

Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately | www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       | drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one
thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the 
facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be 
uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that 
need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia