Total Tangents (was: Whither Snape.. Dursleys ...Umbridge?

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 144869

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "lupinlore" <rdoliver30 at y...> wrote:
> 
> Ah, but was total ruination a satisfactory punishment for 
> stealing the memories of others, as happened with Lockheart?
> I would say it is.  Because it very nicely fit his crime, and
> so must the punishments of Snape, Umbridge, and the Dursleys.  
> ...edited...
> 
> While we are on the subject, what then will be the punishment 
> of Umbridge, we might ask?  Or for that matter, the Dursleys?
> I have a feeling it will involve revelations from Petunia that
> will be devestating for her to make -- ...edited... We may 
> even see a certain amount of salvation for Dudley, ..., as did
> Dumbledore (and of course "salvation" for Dudley might very well
> equal "ruination" in the Dursleys eyes). After all, we have yet
> to see the vaunted "protection" in action, and it seems beyond 
> belief that JKR would just let it slip away without a 
> few pyrotechnics.  
> 
> ...big edit...
>
> Lupinlore



bboyminn:

Well, I've already had my say on Snape's punishment, so for the most
part, I'll let that go. But what Lupinlore said above reminded me of a
few things that I very much hope to see in the next book.

First, I really want to see Ron and Hermione stay at Privet Drive with
Harry and the Dursleys. Really, if that isn't the best possible set up
for loads of tragi-comedy then I don't know what is. The presences of
THREE witches and wizard in the Dursley's house, especially when two
of them are of-age and can do magic legally, would be such pleasantly
comedic torment for the Dursleys.

I also feel that Petunia has some valuable information for Harry.
Information that I'm confident Harry will have to drag out of her. For
one thing, since day one I have wanted to see Dumbledore's letter that
was left on the doorstep with Harry. 

In addition, JKR, in the Emerson/Melisa interview, was very vague
about how Petunia knew so much about the wizard world, and wouldn't
confirm that 'that awful boy' was James. So, something is definitely
going on with Petunia, and I think the best way to get it out of her,
is have Ron and Hermione there with Harry to gang up on her. Really, I
laugh just thinking of the possiblities.

Next on the subject of 'making the Dursleys pay'. The above is not
their payment for their crimes. It is merely some pleasant torment to
set the mood. The real payment will come when, due to as yet to be
determined circumstances, the Dursleys are force to seek refuge at 12
Grimmauld Place. Now that is punishment.

Being force to live in a world they despise with magic, house-elves,
and talking portraits (Mrs.Black), plus assorted witches and wizards
all around them. And the greatest humiliation of all would be that
they were now under Harry protection; they would then be living in
Harry's house, at Harry's expense, and under Harry's control. Take
about Karmic retribution!

The other alternative would be for the Dursleys to be forced to seek
refuge at Hogwarts. Just as bad for them, but I like them staying at
Harry's better.

As to why, they might have to stay at Harry's house, I speculate a DE
attack on the Dursley's house. In someways that seem a little to
obvious and easy, but I guess it could happen. Perhaps, it will merely
be the threat of an attack that will put them under Harry's protection.

On that same subject, don't forget JKR's statement of someone doing
magic later in life. It could be Petunia. JKR was specifically asked
if Petunia was a SQUIB, and to that, she said NO...not a squib BUT....
That 'but' at the end once again very much implies that something is
up with Petunia. I have always speculated that she got a letter from
Hogwarts and turned it down as not the proper thing for a young lady
to do.

Regardless, there is definitely something going on with Petunia that
will be resolved, or at least touched on, in the last book. While I'm
sure I'm far off base, I none the less like the Karmic irony of the
tables being turned on the Dursley, and having them under Harry care
and protection.

I think that reflects the type of karmic justice we are far more
likely to see in the last book rather than the direct confrontation
and punishment of characters. And, in a way, I think /fate/ or
/destiny/ or /irony/ punishing the characters is far more rewarding
for me as a reader than 'law and order' type punishment. 

To some extent, I don't think we necessarily want to see formal
punishment, we simply want to see the character pay for their
'crimes'. Seeing them pay, and 'law and order' style punishment are
very different things. I think Lockhart suffered a very fitting
punishment, even though he has never been called before the courts. As
Dumbledore said, 'Impaled upon your own sword, Gildroy?'.

For Umbridge, who is so unbelievably drunk on power and out of
control, I have already fantasized a similar Karmic punishment in this
same discussion. I speculated that Harry and Umbridge would run into
each other at the Ministry (or where ever) and Umbridge would once
again try to assert her authority over Harry. With suitable anger,
Harry would respond with a reminder that Umbridge had admited to
unforgivable and irredemable crimes in front of many witnesses, and if
she didn't back off and tow the line, Harry would reveal those crime
to the public at large and further compel the courts to take action
against her. 

Even if the courts were lenient with her, her reputation would be
ruined. She would forever be known as the witch who tried to destroy
the one person who could save the wizard world from Voldemort. She
would become a pariah. She would loose all status and power in the
wizard world, and for most, that would be a fitting punishment. But
personally, I think for someone who loves to excesize power, it would
be far greater agony for her to tow the line, and kowtow to Harry.

Again the twisted karmic hand of destiny punishes in a far more
satifying way than 'law and order' punishment ever could.

As to Snape, I honestly don't think we will see any formal punishment
specifically for his treatment of Harry. I'm not going to elaborate
because this has already been discussed to death. But I will say that
I speculate the same type of ironic karmic punishment for Snape is a
lot more likely that a direct confrontation or 'law and order' style
punishment. In an odd and twisted way Snape's future life will be his
punishment. Instead of 'X' number of years in prison, every single day
of his life from now until he dies will be the karmic punishment he so
richly deserves.

What I am looking forward to far more than Snape's punishment, is how
he will help Harry in the final book. He has, by his actions, so
alienated himself from Harry, that I don't see how the two of them
could ever cooperate on anything again. But I still think Snape will
be the shortcut Harry needs to solve his Horcrux problems, and to
defeat Voldemort. That is far more productive book time than seeing
someone rag on Snape for being so nasty, although, I'm sure at some
point Snape and Harry will meet face to face, and Harry will take that
opportunity to rag on Snape with great enthusiasm.

Sadly, all this speculation about what I would like to see in the next
story is probably doomed to disappointment as I'm sure JKR has her own
unique direction to take the story. 

For what it's worth.

Steve/bboyminn