Symbols & Name Meanings

[Ceridwen]

No: HPFGUIDX 144986

Ceridwen:
> I'm a little confused.  JKR said the houses match up Gryffindor - 
> Fire, Hufflepuff - Earth, Ravenclaw - Air, Slytherin - Water.  So, 
> are we just doing this for exercise?  
> http://www.mugglenet.com/jkrinterview3.shtml"

Bruce: 
> Because if Hufflepuff is the Earth Mistress, why does she have a 
Cup, which is a
> symbol of Water?
> If Slytherin is the Water Master, why is his relic a Ring (that is, 
a gem),
> which is an Earth symbol?
> If Griffindor is the Fire Master, why does he have a Sword, which 
is an Air
> symbol?
> 
> If we take JKR's assignment of the Elements to the Houses, then WHY 
are the
> three Founders' Relics we have seen not associated with the 
corresponding
> elements?  Is JKR trying to tell us something?

Ceridwen:
http://www.mugglenet.com/jkrinterview3.shtml - scroll down.
JKR told us that she assigns Fire to Gryffindor, Water to Slytherin, 
Earth to Hufflepuff, and Air to Ravenclaw.  The jobs she assigns two 
of the Heads of House seem to fit with their house elements - 
Herbology for Sprout/Hufflepuff, and Potions (using the cauldron) to 
Snape/Slytherin.  It's obvious she didn't mean for the relics to 
mirror the elements, but IMO, more to describe the personality or 
some other tidbit about the Founder to which the relic once belonged.

Bruce: 
> Salazar and Hufflepuff seem to have exchanged symbols--does that 
mean that they
> were involved?  Is Voldemort also the Heir of Hufflepuff?  If the 
Ravenclaw
> relic turns out to be a Staff or Wand or Rod, then the other two 
founders will
> have also exchanged symbols.  We know that Harry is NOT the Heir of 
Griffindor,
> per JKR, but what if then he is the Heir of Ravenclaw, but placed in
> Griffindor--thus bringing together the powers of the other two 
houses (and
> wasn't Cedric, the other Hogwarts' Champion, from Ravenclaw? He 
needs to be
> avenged.  Hmm.  "Harry Potter & the Revenge of Ravenclaw"?)

Ceridwen:
I have no idea if any of the Founders were involved with each other.  
I suppose there may be some fanfic to suggest it.  But nothing that I 
can see in canon.  Gryffindor having a sword would make sense since 
the trait of his House is bravery.  Sword = Battle = implies courage 
in battle.  It's a decorative sword, IIRC.  The ring for Slytherin, 
as I think it was Geoff who mentioned, aristocratic people a thousand 
years ago had signet rings.  Slytherin is the ambitious house, and 
ambitious people aspire to a position where, a thousand years ago, 
they would have merited a signet ring as a symbol of 
their 'arrival'.  I suggested the cup for bounty, like a cornucopia, 
which is more of an earth symbol than water.  But, Hufflepuff 
takes 'the rest', so offering a cup of welcome wouldn't be amiss.  I 
don't know what Ravenclaw's relic might be.  I suggested a book or 
quill, others have suggested the wand in Olivander's window, or the 
tiara in the RoR.  I don't know how the wand or the tiara would 
equate to the 'intellectual' house, but someone must have some idea.

JKR has said she doesn't know much about things like 
correspondences.  And, I know from personal experience that knowing 
about the elements doesn't mean you automatically know what 
symbolizes them.  She may have latched onto what is general 
knowledge, that the elements exist and are symbolic of a healthy 
whole, but not gotten too deep into the symbolism of them.  Not 
everyone is an expert, so we shouldn't automatically assume that 
Rowling is, or that she even knew enough when she started writing HP 
on a typewriter, not a computer which has access to info on the 'net, 
to look for anything more than the elements themselves.

And, Cedric Diggory was in Hufflepuff.

Bruce:
> 'Whinging' means 'complaining, carping, grousing'.  "Umbridge" is 
from the Latin
> root 'umbra' meaning 'shadow'; her first name, Delores, 
means 'sorrow'.
> 'Mundungus Fletcher' is not funny in and of itself--aside from that 
big Latin
> name in front of a rather common surname, but his nickname 'Dung' 
means
> 'schiest'.  Are their any other names you want to know about?

Ceridwen:
Umbridge is a homonym for Umbrage: 
1) Offense; resentment: took umbrage at their rudeness. 
2) a:Something that affords shade. 
2) b:Shadow or shade. See Synonyms at shade. 
3) A vague or indistinct indication; a hint.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=umbrage
Umbra:
1) A dark area, especially the blackest part of a shadow from which 
all light is cut off. See Synonyms at shade. 
2) Astronomy. 
a:The completely dark portion of the shadow cast by the earth, moon, 
or other body during an eclipse. 
b:The darkest region of a sunspot.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=umbra

Dolores Umbridge is an offensive character.  I'd say we were supposed 
to 'take umbrage' at her.

Ceridwen.