Who killed Dumbledore? Heroes and Not.

[ornadv]

No: HPFGUIDX 145140

>Lupinlore:
>As with most DDM! speculation, it
>falls afoul of the fact that this is NOT SNAPE'S STORY. Nor is it
>Dumbledore's story. This kind of convoluted (and unbelievable)
>scenario has a tendancy to pull the focus completely off of Harry 
>and his decisions and onto the decisions and plans of Dumbledore and
>Snape. Harry becomes a passive victim in the whole process, not a
>hero whose decisions and actions are the focus of the tale.

Orna:
You may be right in principle – but facts are that Snape is getting 
IMO more cyber-attention than Harry, as it is. And whatever 
direction the story goes – we will need to get some explanation, 
which makes Snape's behavior understandable. Since there are DDM!
Snape-fans and ESE!Snape-fans, it means that either way, it will 
take some skill and story-volume to make it believable.  So Snape is 
a second-degree hero in a way, and understanding what made him act 
the way he did, apparent or real major turning points included – are 
crucial to the focus of the tale. 
Since you have to add to this that either way he is, it means that 
he is a very gifted wizard, being able to deceive the (nearly?) 
greatest wizard of all times, both specializing in legilimens, I 
think it is very crucial to the focus of the story, which seats 
itself on the point of love, evil, and what makes people build their 
fates between them.
It doesn't make Harry less hero, since the ability to see people as 
they really are, and not the way they appear to be, or the way he 
wants them to be, and relate to them from this POV, is the focus of 
the tale.
And Harry (with us behind him) being able to decipher Snape in a 
convincing and believable way, is crucial to this point. 
I believe, JKR will do it in a way, which enables DDM!-fans and ESE!-
fans to enjoy and learn something from it. (Although it doesn't seem 
possible right now).

>Sherry
>Anything, but Harry's absolute knowledge that if he hadn't forced 
>the potion down Dumbledore, Dumbledore would be alive. I don't know 
>if he could stand that or live with it<snip>
 >But it would be a truly terrible thing to do to Harry, and I'd
>like him to have something positive and happy to hang onto in his 
>heart in the end. He's only 17 after all. some things are just too 
>big a burden to bear or price to pay.

Orna:
I feel in a way the same, but in a way – not. One of the things I 
feel contribute to the books power, is that they are very real in a 
deep sense. And horrible as it is, children are victims of terrible 
life circumstances and tragic life events. And spelling it out 
brutally -  Harry has to come into terms with his 
endangering/getting Sirius killed – because of some vivid dream, or 
hopefully being able to accept human's shortcomings, and not trying 
to find some scapegoat to blame. Even as the story goes now – he has 
weakened DD fatally – for nothing, or perhaps for something – 
actually what does it really matter – it is a terrible guilt-evoking 
burden, and Harry has to be able to accept this tragic outcomes of 
life – without resorting to the most natural drive – to find some 
ESE! Guy, whom he can blame. 
I feel, that's part of what the story is about – to differentiate 
between evilness and purposeful hurting and fighting it to death, 
and between the human tendency to create scapegoats (including 
themselves) and see them as ESE! when very tragic happenings go on. 
Just for balance – there is also the tendency to deny the existence 
of evil, to believe in far-fetched theories, so as not to stand eye 
to eye in front of evil (Fudge would be the character for that, or 
DDM!Snape-fans, if Snape turns out to be ESE! <g>)

>Jen: Harry does take on guilt for things that are not his fault.
>Usually he is acting without all the information, information others
>have withheld from him. Dumbledore is evasive about the action of
>the potion and in the middle of the cave sequence, Harry does NOT
>think he is feeding Dumbledore poison:

>-- Sydney
>To my mind guilt and letting go of guilt is the whole point of 
>Snape's role thematically

Orna:
Agree. I just wanted to add, that IMO Harry seeing the pensieve 
scene in OotP is another thing burdening his guilt-  he sees his 
father humiliating Snape - just because he is bored, and Snape 
exists. OTOH DDM!Snape might be burdened  by the terrible outcomes 
of his DE's days – I mean, even if he didn't AK many people – he is 
a very powerful wizard, so his contribution should be felt. 
I think, that perhaps their mutual hate has to do with it, if you 
feel burdened by guilt, you are bound to feel some hatred towards 
the person signifying your guilt, which in turn arouses more guilt, 
etc – a truly vicious cycle. Letting go of guilt isn't "paying back" 
your debt, or forwarding the guilt to someone else, but something 
entirely different, which Harry hasn't been able to do until now. 
That's what I suppose is going to happen in book 7. 

Orna, alternately blaming JKR for having to wait until book 7, and 
then again enjoying the time it gives us for thought very much.