The Twins / Weasleys / Percy

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 145232

> >>va32h:
> A few things I think are crucial in considering the Weasley twins 
> are: 
> 1) First and foremost - JKR has consistently expressed affection   
> for the Weasley family of characters.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Honestly, I *do* have a hard time figuring out what JKR herself 
thinks about the twins behavior.  Does she think they're just high-
spirited young lads?  I don't know.  However, if she is planning a 
surprise twist in book 7, she'd hardly warn us about it in an 
interview, IMO.

> >>va32h:
> 2) The twins are teenage boys. 
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
By HBP they're eighteen going on nineteen, and young men in the eyes 
of the WW.  And as I said, I *did* find their antics amusing in the 
first few books.  It's as Fred and George grew older that I was less 
and less amused.

> >>va32h:
> 3)Personal experiences can affect how the reader perceives sibling 
> relationships in the Weasley family. 
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Very true, and I think my reactions to Molly are based on personal 
experiences.  But the twins....  I may come across as an only child 
from a very protected household, but I'm actually the eldest of 
three very high spirited girls, and we've each got scars and bloody 
histories (including a tale of near drowning) to look back on and 
laugh about.  So I do know about sibling high jinks.  And I think 
the twins take things too far.

> >>va32h:
> As I said in the Hagrid/Draco/Buckbeak thread, violence and       
> physical injuries simply do not have the same weight in the       
> magical world, where such injuries are instantly fixable, as they 
> do in the "real" world. 
> <snip>
> Harry has nearly died every year he's attended Hogwart's.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
On the one hand I agree with you.  There is less worry about 
physical injury in the WW.  The seats in the Knight Bus aren't even 
bolted down, for goodness sakes!  And yet...  Isn't Draco looked at 
as behaving very badly for giving Harry a bloody nose?  And when 
Harry is injured, doesn't he *act* injured?  When he twists (or 
breaks?) his ankle, he really feels the pain.  When Voldemort 
invades his mind, Harry actually pukes from the pain.  Harry isn't 
blowing his injuries off as ho-hum.

There is a level of cartoon violence, I agree.  But it's not *all* 
on that level.  When Slytherin plays a very ugly game of quidditch 
and Gryffindors are being injured -- they *feel* those injuries, and 
they get angry because of it.  And I think JKR expects the readers 
to wince at the injuries as we would if witnessing this type of play 
on a football field.  So the million dollar question is, how does 
she see the twin-caused injuries?  And at this point, I can't answer 
that.  I can only say how *I* see them.

> >>va32h:
> <snip>
> The Quidditch teammate with the bloody nose (was that Katie or 
> Alicia?) also expressed no pain, only irritation at having her 
> practice spoiled. No one on the team expressed horror at a        
> teammate bleeding, merely annoyance that the practice was being    
> ruined. 

Betsy Hp:
Actually, *Fred* expressed some horror when he realized he and 
George had given Katie the wrong product:

"He saw Fred pull out something purple, examine it for a second, and 
then look around at Katie, evidently horrorstruck." (OotP p.293)

But for some reason he does nothing until Angelina stops the 
practice:

"It was plain that Angelina had stopped training just in time; Katie 
was chalk-white and covered in blood." (ibid)

So, just in time for what?  To prevent Katie from collapsing from 
her broom maybe?  And I'd say Katie wasn't expressing much of 
anything, pain or irritation.  Too weak from the blood loss maybe?

Again, I'm really not sure how JKR wants us to read this, but I'd 
have appreciated Fred coming forward a little sooner.  And I could 
have done without his "covering my ass" stuttering about *Katie* 
being the one to take the wrong product. 

> >>va32h:
> The puffskein squashing was mentioned in a single offhand sentence 
> in a book that is not even a true part of the series.
> <snip>

> >>Allie:
> <snip>
> I really DON'T think JKR meant that to be taken seriously, since   
> it was just ONE line in an ancillary book, so I am trying very    
> hard to come up with another reasonable explanation to let the    
> Weasley twins off the hook.
> <snip of three possible stories>

Betsy Hp:
I don't think the twins are monsters.  At least, they don't start 
out that way.  And it *was* a throwaway line, I agree.  It's never 
refered to in any other book, so casual readers would know nothing 
about it.  So I tend to agree with those who think that Fred was 
pretty young at the time, especially since it's far enough behind 
him that Ron seems very matter of fact about it.

I do think Ron had a puffskein; I do think Fred killed it by hitting 
it with a bat.  I tend to think this is along the lines of the 
twins' usual high spirits rather than a vicious act of sadism, 
because I do think Fred was young enough to not know any better.  
But it *is* a dead pet.  If it was the only person or animal ever 
abused by Fred and his brother, I think I'd pretty much dismiss it.  
But since I sort of see a trend to their behavior, this is just one 
more item.  

> >>BAW:
> "Fantastic Beasts" says that the OTHER way of dealing with gnomes 
> was to set a jarvey on them, but that many wizards think this is  
> inhumane and prefer the tossing method. After all, the tossing     
> doesn't seem to hurt them, and they come right back. Would you    
> rather have the Weasley's set a jarvey on the gnomes?

Betsy Hp:
I was unclear, sorry.  I'm talking about the Christmas gnome:

"Fred, George, Harry, and Ron were the only ones who knew that the 
angel on top of the tree was actually a garden gnome that had bitten 
Fred on the ankle as he pulled up carrots for Christmas dinner.  
Stupefied, painted gold, stuffed into a miniature tutu and with 
small wings glued to its back, it glowered down at them all, the 
ugliest angel Harry had ever seen, with a large bald head like a 
potato and rather hairy feet." (HBP p.329-330)

It struck me as a rather involved and sadistic sort of revenge for a 
gnome behaving like a gnome.  Though JKR may just have meant it for 
humor.  Again, it didn't work for me, sent up a few warning flares, 
etc.  But it may have just been me.  

Betsy Hp