TBAY: Definitely NOT a Snape Theory (long)

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 145311

> Neri:
> > Now, after this long clarification of terms, let's go back to 
Snape's
> > hatred for Harry. A basic assumption of DDM is that Snape's 
remorse
> > about his part in the death of James and/or Lily is genuine. 
Even more
> > than genuine, it is so strong that even today, 15 years later,
> > DDM!Snape constantly risks himself and, as Pippin put it, would
> > sacrifice his life for Dumbledore's cause. Such Choices would 
show the
> > present day DDM!Snape to be an extremely moral person, despite 
his
> > past mistakes that he now deeply regrets. Such a moral person 
don't
> > "just hate" an innocent 11 years old kid. <SNIP>

> Pippin:
> It follows directly from Dumbledore's explanation in PS/SS. 
<go UPTHREAD to read the quote>
> Snape hated James, but he hated being under obligations to James 
even
> more. Then he put himself further in debt to James by endangering 
James's life. 
> Naturally Snape would regret that deeply. But it didn't stop him 
from hating
> James...why should it?
> 
> Then James died, and Harry inherited both the debt and the hatred. 
Snape has
> an obligation to Harry and, according to Dumbledore, wants very 
much to 
> be quit of it. But nothing in the obligation requires Snape to be 
considerate of
> Harry or like Harry or feel sorry for Harry. So he  isn't and he 
doesn't.
> 
> Think of all the people who hate their landlords or their mortgage 
holders,
> think the whole property-owning class is rotten and their children 
are
> spoiled brats who will grow up to be just  the same, but are far 
too proud
> to even dream of  defaulting on their payments, much less murder.
> 


Alla:

Oh, but Pippin, wait a second . Neri's argument the way I understand 
it is that the moral person, (and Dumbledore Man!Snape is a moral 
person, no?) simply does not do it - does not TRANSFER the hatred to 
the innocent child.

Do you think that DD!M Snape is loyal to the Light or loyal only to 
Dumbledore? Even if he is loyal to Dumbledore only, it still IMO 
would mean that he at least partially loyal to what Dumbledore 
preaches and practices and that is not IMO hating children for the 
sins of their parents real or imaginery.

Besides, I don't think Neri argued that Moral!Snape has to like 
Harry ( sorry Neri if I am misinterpreting your words), but that if 
his REMORSE is genuine, he just cannot behave that way, it is just 
unrealistic IMO.

Of course I am making RL comparison again, but I just cannot imagine 
behaving even remotely close to what Snape does ( of course the 
analogy is loose - as close as possible in RL) to any person I would 
feel guilty about something. I would try my best to MAKE UP for what 
that person lost because of me if it i possible of course and 
partially because of Snape Harry lost his parents, so wouldn't it 
make more sense for truly remorseful Snape treat Harry with kindness 
or at least without hate? Yes, yes, I know it would be out of 
character for Snape to behave that way, but if Snape is truly so 
VERY sorry, wouldn't he try to overcome his unwillingness to be kind 
to Harry? Instead he attacks him as viciously as possible the first 
day Harry starts his lessons, IMO. I am sorry, but I cannot smell 
remorse even from very close distance here.

As a little aside to the thread in general. It is funny actually, 
when I read Neri's introductory TBAY  in this thread and I never 
miss anything he writes, my first reaction was  a bit unusual from 
what I usually feel after I read his writings. Usually he shows me 
the connections in canon I totally miss and I find them incredibly 
agreeable, so I usually think. Oh, yes, Neri is a genuis, I had not 
seen it before, but now I totally see it. :-)  But after reading 
this post my first reaction was "Duh!" . Pre HBP I was always sure 
that Snape wants to honor his debt to James and that is why he tries 
to save Harry. I never felt that Snape felt that he repaid his debt 
for al the reasons Neri stated and what I tried to add, but after 
HBP with all DD!M , ESE!, OFH! I indeed started to being less 
focused on the Life Debt as being the reason for Snape saving Harry, 
because I started to think that Snape who did in his mentor is not a 
very honorable person, but I am totally back to LID!Snape, because 
indeed he could betray Dumbledore and still have Life debt to James. 
Regardless of what Snape ultimate loyalties are, I believe that Life 
Debt is the reason Snape keeps saving Harry and won't rest till he 
makes one spectacular rescue in book 7. I think that Life debt will 
not be repaid till Snape will be the only one on the scene saving 
Harry from Voldemort. Does it mean that I believe that Snape is 
loyal to Dumbledore? Not necessarily at all, he just wants to be 
done with Debt, IMO and then going on to bigger and "better" things.

So, erm... bravo Neri for reminding me of that. :-)

JMO,
Alla