Disappointment with the Last Book (was The Needs of Snape's Redemption)

[susanbones2003]

No: HPFGUIDX 145407

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "lupinlore" <rdoliver30 at y...> 
wrote:> Lots of snipping for brevity's sake:
Lupinlore writes:
> Having said that, I doubt either of us will be very disappointed 
with 
> the last book, or particularly satisfied.  JKR has managed to get 
> herself into a quite a bind, in the sense of having an enormous 
amount 
> to deal with in the last book, and relatively little time or space 
in 
> which to deal with it.  I don't think, to be honest, that very much 
of 
> anything is going to get the space it probably needs.  In fact, 
> however the final situation with Snape comes out, I think we will 
see 
> pretty much all sides going "You mean that's IT?"

Having not given this whole concept the difficulties JKR is going to 
finishing the series in a satisfying manner, I find myself more than 
a little unnerved by the process. There isn't time for all the 
characters and plots that deserve a decent story development and arc. 
I have faced this problem with the movies, the "denotation" you speak 
of. It gets very spotty to say the least and takes a heap of 
imagination to fill in the many blanks that are left. But the books? 
I always looked at those huge books that started to come out and 
giving adequate space to characters and storylines didn't seem to be 
the problem. Editing her, now that was the challenge! Who wanted to 
say to her "Uh, Jo, how are you going to finish the many many threads 
you've got going in one measly book?" No one, I'll wager, and I am 
not a betting woman. The best thing you can do is to keep hammering 
home that probably none of us is going to be satisfied, not the ones 
that want Snape flayed, not the ones who want to see Harry interact 
with Ginny, no body. Just getting hold of the horcruxes could easily 
take an entire book. Let's face it.
Jen D

> 
> Let's see, she has to deal with the Snape situation, deal with the 
> horcruxes, deal with Voldemort, finish off the Dursley arc, deal 
with 
> Voldemort, have an appearance from Umbridge, have an appearance 
from 
> Krum, and let us know what's going on with Voldemort.  She has to 
get 
> Ron/Hermione off the ground, and I would be stunned (and I think 
> almost everyone else would, too) if we don't have at least a couple 
of 
> nods at Harry/Ginny.  We are going to learn more about Dumbledore 
and 
> meet another member of the Order.  Wormtail, we have been told, has 
> some role to play and the events in the Shrieking Shack will be 
> important.  We have the Draco arc to finish.  We also have been 
told 
> that the final chapter is basically a "whatever happened to..." 
piece.
> 
> That's all at a bare MINIMUM.  In addition, she has the whole Percy 
> arc, the situation with House unity, the situation with the 
Ministry, 
> the House Elves, the relations with other magical creatures, the 
final 
> fate of Remus Lupin (who rumor has long said has a major role to 
play 
> in Book VII) and many other things she could finish.  Oh, and I 
think 
> most people would be shocked and disappointed not to see Harry's 
> protection in action, or to get some coverage of Bill and Fleur's 
> wedding.
> 
> Let's face it, over the last couple of books JKR has spun her 
wheels 
> for 1300 out of 1700 pages.  Everything that moved things along in 
a 
> significant way in OOTP and GOF could easily fit into one book the 
> size of POA or slightly longer.  Now she's against the wall with a 
lot 
> of time wasted and and a lot of pressing issues to address.
> 
> Therefore I suspect that in Book VII we will see a lot of the same 
> technique we saw in some parts of GOF: i.e. a "by-the-numbers 
> approach" that finds the book going from issue to issue at a 
hurried 
> pace while JKR checks off various boxes and ties up various loose 
> ends.  Much will be done by things being "denoted" -- a term from 
> liturgics, which means you don't do the whole ritual you just speak 
> the key lines and move along briskly (e.g. there are points in 
certain 
> Greek Orthodox rituals where the first lines of long prayers and 
> creeds are said and you move on, pretty much on the principle that 
> everybody knows the rest, anyway, so we'll just act like we said 
it).  
> 
> We saw some perfect examples of this in GOF.  Dumbledore's 
> confrontation with the Dursleys was a shorthand way of dealing with 
> the whole "Dumbledore approves of child abuse" controversy.  
Hagrid's 
> one paragraph about the dangers of Hogwarts and parental worries 
dealt 
> with THAT issue.  Harry and Dumbledore's conversation in the 
Weasleys' 
> shed denoted dealing with the issues of Sirius' death.  The 
> Harry/Ginny romance was one giant denotion squeezing into a few 
pages 
> what probably should have been spread over parts of three books.
> 
> I think much of what happens in Book VII will follow this pattern.  
A 
> few lines about Hogwarts here, a couple of lines about Percy 
there.  
> With Snape, I think we will see something very similar.  As Alla 
has 
> pointed out, an apology from Snape would likely take the 
> form, "Potter, I'm very sorry for everything since that night in 
> Godric's Hollow -- everything," followed by a large wet sound as 
Snape 
> expires.  
> 
> Now, the problem with denotion is that it often makes little 
sense.  
> Dumbledore's confrontation with the Dursleys really makes very 
little 
> sense once you start thinking about all the issues and 
implications.  
> Harry/Ginny springs from nowhere.  Hagrid's talk about the dangers 
of 
> Hogwarts nods to all sorts of issues and leaves them unexplored.  
But 
> JKR ain't the world's best when it comes to thoroughness and 
> consistency, and isn't even averse to taking people OOC when she 
needs 
> to deal with something quickly and tie it off.  So I think we may 
well 
> find much in Book VII to be hurried and OOC.  JKR just doesn't have 
> time to deal with everything without cutting a lot of corners.  I 
> suspect Peter is a strong candidate for OOCness, as is Draco, and 
also 
> Snape.  Harry may be the best candidate, and I wouldn't be 
surprised 
> if Remus' character shifts if he does indeed have a big part.  
Their 
> arcs are just too involved and complicated for JKR to bring them to 
an 
> end without cutting corners, i.e. without using the type of 
denotion 
> that amounts to "something happened here, but I don't have time to 
go 
> into it."
> 
> So, does the type of apology Alla theorizes make sense, strictly 
> speaking?  Not really, but I'll lay 4-1 odds that something like 
that 
> is exactly what we'll see (it would have been 5-4, but after the 
> Remus/Tonks revelation in in GoF that probability of such 
techniques 
> being employed expanded greatly).  Does Peter suddenly coming out 
of 
> nowhere to play a role in Harry's victory really make sense?  No, 
but 
> I'll lay 7-1 that we'll see that.
> 
> In fact, I'll lay the following odds on things (and since gambling 
> debts are not legally enforcable in the USA, good luck getting any 
> money out of me).  I know the odds aren't mathematically correct, 
but 
> I don't do complex calculations when I'm on vacation:
> 
> Snape living: 1-50
> Snape being ESE: 1-10
> Snape being OFH/Grey: 1-1
> Snape being DDM/Grey: 1-1
> Snape facing karmic punishment: 5-1
> Snape giving an "Alla-style" apology: 4-1
> A third party involvement in the Harry/Snape relationship: 1-1
> Peter playing a role in Harry's victory: 7-1
> Draco playing a role in Harry's victory: 1-1
> Karmic punishment/revelation from Petunia: 3-1
> Karmic punishment for Umbridge: 4-1
> Snape finding/disabling horcruxes "Steve-style": 1-10
> Snape giving a "Potter you dunderhead" speech instead of apology: 1-
5
> Remus seeming OOC in final book: 3-1
> Snape seeming OOC in final book: 5-1
> Harry dieing: 1-3
> Ron/Hermione dieing: 1-9
> 
> 
> Lupinlore
>