Snape and Peter and Prophecy and Harry

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 145482

> Julie:
> It's *partly* because of Snape. And it's partly because Sirius 
picked
> the wrong secret-keeper, and partly because James and Lily placed
> their trust in that wrong person. <snip>.

Alla:

Well, yes, EXCEPT Snape is the one who started all that and without 
Snape talking maybe nothing of the above would happened, IMO.


Juli:
<SNIP>
> BTW, it's always entertaining to wonder about those "what if"
> scenarios. In this case, what if Snape hadn't heard/told LV of the 
> prophecy--then what would have happened to Harry's life, and
> where would he be now? My guess: The Order was outnumbered
> and being picked off one by one. Voldemort was undefeatable
> then, from everything we've heard. He would have eventually 
> exterminated the Order, and taken over the WW. At which point
> Harry would still be an orphan, with no parents, *and* no  Sirius,
> Lupin, Dumbledore, Weasleys, etc, etc. Harry wouldn't be 
> "an ordinary boy on the Light side" but an ordinary boy who
> grew up in a WW ruled by the Dark side. He might well be
> indistinguishable from Draco Malfoy!

Alla:

It is interesting to speculate, isn't it? Voldie killed approximately 
33% of the original Order Members. Who says that Lily and James could 
not have survived AND maybe Trelawney would have given a different 
prophecy that someone else , maybe not even a child could have 
defeated Voldemort and maybe that someone would have defeated 
Voldemort indeed AND maybe Lily and James were able to give Harry a 
happy home, without all hurt and pain he had to experience with 
Dursleys AND maybe Peter would not betrayed them, since there was 
nobody to betray AND since Sirius did not had a need to go after 
Peter, he did not end up in Azkaban.

Of course we would not have a story then, but I can certainly imagine 
much happier life for Harry, if Snape did not do what he did.

It is certainly possible that yours would turn out to be true too of 
course. Speculations, speculations. :-)


Julie: 
> In an ironic twist, it may be that Snape's actions, those that
> were partly to blame for Harry being orphaned, are also partly
> responsible for the WW being saved from defeat and descent 
> into darkness when Voldemort was reduced to vapor at Godric's
> Hollow by his own failed AK.

Alla:

Indeed, unforeseeable consequences, I agree, but I don't think that 
it makes Snape one yota less guilty, unless of course you argue that 
he is a Seer and could have foreseen all that. IMO of course.

 
Julie:  
> So, if you want to say Snape played a part in making Harry
> who he is, a boy with extraordinary gifts, who will save a
> WW that still exists to *be* saved, then I agree. Perhaps
> Harry should thank Snape? 

Alla:

Perhaps not. :-)


Julie:
(Just kidding!!! But events play
> out the way they do because of all the actions that went
> before, with both good and bad actions and results--made
> good or bad by our judgment--inseparably entwined.)

Alla:

Undoubtedly, but see above. Because then we should be thanking 
Voldemort too for going to kill the Potters, after all he made his 
own demise, no? But I doubt that he intended that, personally.


 Julie: 
> And maybe by the end of book seven, Harry won't be
> known as "The boy who Lived" but as "The boy who
> saved the Wizarding World--twice.")

Alla:

I hope so. :-)

Gerry: 
> So explain to me again why the person who told about the prophecy is
> guiltier then the person who actually betrayed the Potters? Because
> of Snape they had to go into hiding. They were SAFE in their hiding
> place, because THEY COULD NOT BE FOUND. Please tell me how this 
makes
> Snape guilty because after the Fidelius charm they were effectively
> out of LV's reach. Now Snape is fully to blame for the need for them
> to be in hiding, but how can he be guilty of their death if they 
were
> so safely hidden no-one could find them? Until Wormtail betrayed 
them
> and then LV killed them. Seems quite simpel who is guilty here: LV 
for
> doing the actual killing and Wormtail for giving him the opportunity
> to do so. 


Alla:

Good point, Gerry and I have not said that Snape is fully to blame 
for Potters' death, I said he played a PART in Potters' death, large 
part, but part nevertheless.
BUT I believe that Snape is guilty in more than Potters' need to go 
in hiding. He is guilty in identifying them as targets for Voldemort. 
You are arguing that they were safe in their hiding place and I am 
not sure I agree with that. Secret Keeper CAN break the Fidelius 
Charm voluntarily, we know that, when Harry is told where 12 
Grimmauld is located, so they must have known that Fidelius Charm is 
not 100% safe, so I don't see how "nobody could find them". Anybody 
who would learn the secret, could find them IMO.

The fact that they were forced to use it AND that Voldemort started 
hunting for them, makes Snape guilty in my eyes.

Peter is a treacherous bastard and it is quite possible that he is 
much worse bastard than Snape, IMO, but there are so many people who 
live their lives without being forced to show the worst in their 
natures, again IMO.

I think that Snape's actions forced Peter to reveal the worst in his 
nature and betray Potters. No, Peter may not have been a better 
person if Snape did not do what he did, BUT it is a possible 
speculation, IMO that maybe Potters would have never learned of who 
Peter really is and especially not with the price of their deaths.

For THAT I blame Snape.

JMO,

Alla