Patronuses in general (was Re: Secondary thought on Patronuses

[kiricat4001]

No: HPFGUIDX 145552

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" <willsonkmom at m...> 
wrote:
>
>  
> > Julie:
> > This is a good point. But it is possible Snape identified Tonks' 
> > changed patronus *after the fact.* When he saw that she was the 
one 
> > escorting Harry, he knew it was her patronus--one he didn't 
> associate 
> > with her until that moment. I found it interesting that his 
snarky 
> > comment about her new patronus being "weak" was said as 
something 
> of 
> an 
> > afterthought. (And again, this brief mention was pointless to 
the 
> plot 
> > of HBP, but there must be some reason JKR introduced the 
concept!)
> > 
> 
> 
> Potioncat:
> There is so much we don't know about Patronuses!
> I thought Snape knew who the Patronus was from, before he heard it 
> and  
> certainly after he heard its message. I'm assuming it's only Order 
> members who even know about this form of communication.


Marianne:

If Order members used this method of communication the first time 
around, then Peter also knows of it. If Peter knows, it's possible 
that Voldemort knows.  Can a Patronus form be faked? IOW, could an 
extremely powerful wizard like  Voldemort design something that 
looks like a Patronus and use it to send a false message? 

Potioncat:
<snip> 
> Was his snarkiness directed at Lupin, perhaps? Snape is saying 
that 
> Lupin is weak or weaker than whomever/whatever Tonk's former 
Patronus 
> form was. Or was he commneting on Tonk's weakness? That she is 
weaker 
> than she was?


Marianne:

I don't think Snape would be looking at just the surface appearance 
of a Patronus, as to which animal form is stronger than other animal 
forms. I think Snape is too subtle for that.  He'll go for the 
underlying meaning. If he knows of Tonks's evident longing for 
Remus, he could be displaying his usual charming behavior to let her 
know he thinks her weak - weak for having these emotions at all, for 
having them for Remus, ex-Marauder, specifically, for falling for a 
Dark Creature, or for losing some of her innate powers because of 
her emotion.   
  
Potioncat:
> She says the Patronus was intended for Hagrid. Now, does that mean 
> she 
> sent it to Hagrid or to the place she expected Hagrid to be? That 
is, 
> she expected Hagrid to be on "duty" at a special place, but 
instead 
> Snape was on duty. If it was sent "to Hagrid" how did Snape "read" 
> it? 

Marianne:
I'd guess that it could be read by anyone.  If an Order member sent 
a message to 12 Grimmauld Place for Moody, let's say, and he's not 
there, what happens? Does the Patronus hang around waiting for him? 
Does it act like an owl and go looking for him? IF the latter, I'd 
think that then Tonks' message would have wandered about until it 
found Hagrid.  For that reason, I think Patronus messages can 
be "opened" by any Order member who intercepts it.
  
> And of course, how will a changing Patronus play out in book 7. 
Will 
> it 
> be someone's Patronus that we readers already know or will it be 
> someone whose Patronus we don't know?  
> 
> Someone else who has had a big shock is Harry. Could his Patronus 
> change from a stag to a Phoenix?

> Potioncat, as I've said before, we cats have more questions than 
> answers.

Marianne:
I think Harry is a good bet.  We've already had someone's unknown 
Patronus change into something else.  It would have a bigger impact 
to see something we already know change into something with a 
specific meaning for us. OTOH, should Harry receive a message from a 
phoenix patronus, and find out afterwards that this is Snape's brand-
new, revamped form, it would lend some weight to DDM!Snape. 
<<shudders at the thought>>

When the questions overwhelm the answers, it's time to do what all 
good cats do - take a nap!