Time Turner...Harry2 Arrived at 6pm

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 123615


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "sandra87b" <sandra87b at y...> wrote:
> 
> bboyminn:
> > Think about the first time through the time loop.
> > Harry WAS save; the Dementors didn't get him. That IS a fact; that
> > IS history; that IS the book's account of the first time through 
> > the loop.
> 

> Sandra:
> Hi there - and this is an interesting angle which I hadn't thought
> of before! ...edited... Mind you, I think the first time through the
> loop as you show it ISN'T the first time through the loop - it's the
> first which JKR tells us about, and that's why it's wrong.   
> ...edited...
>
> The important thing to remember is that Harry was never able to save
> himself because the Dementors got to him and Sirius, and they 
> couldn't do anything about it. - full stop. 
>
> Sandra.


bboyminn:

First note, that I thought it was reasonably clear that I was using
the 'first time loop/second time loop' as an illustration. It was an
attempt to frame my 'one and only one time' theory into the framework
of the viewpoint of those holding the opposite view to show that both
 documented accounts of events in the loop recount the exact same
details but from a different perspective. 

So...

Harry entered the timeline at 6pm, therefore, there was one and only
one /time/. Time only happened once; it's Harry that happened twice.
FULL AND COMPLETE STOP. 

While I do see your point, I simply don't agree. That point of view
creates too many unresolvable problems, FAR MORE unresolvable problems
than the book itself creates. Further, it's based in suppositions that
are a great leap from what is contained in the book, and what is
necessary to explain what happened.

JKR put clues in the first Entrance Hall scene to let us know that the
second set of time traveling Harry and Hermione were there. Nothing
really changes between the first version, as told by normal Harry and
Hermione, and the second version, as told by Time Traveling Harry and
Hermione. All seeming inconsistencies are resolved.

For example, in seening the events the second time, we realize that
the sounds of the second group of people in the Entrance Hall are
really TT!Harry and TT!Hermione running to hide in the second closet.
We hear the axe fall and Hagrid howl at which time Harry/Ron/Hermione
assume Buckbeak was executed, but the in second version, we discover
the axe was struck into a post, and Hargid howled for joy at
Buckbeak's escape. In the first account, Harry assumes he sees his
father, in the second account, we learn that he really saw himself. 

All the signs are that TT!Harry arrived at 6pm and was there through
the entire event; the one and only event which occurred one and only
one time in time.

Now, you are certainly free to create a third timeline (actually, the
first of three) that was shattered by Harry's return in time, and that
is a valid theory of time travel and response, but it is far more
complex than is necessary to resolve the events which can quite easily
be resolved by a more simple explanation. 

In your version, there is a span of history that did occur that was
shattered by Harry going back in time, and replaced by a new timeline.
One huge gap of history, of the lives of every living thing in the
entire vast universe, was erased and /magically/ replace by a
different sequence of events. All of which is undocumented and
unaccounted for in the books.

Fair enough, but if Harry died the in the /shattered/ timeline, how
was he able to travel from the future in which he is dead to the past
to save himself? Dead men don't travel in time.

Not saying one can't speculate several far fetched explanation to
resolve this, like Harry jumped between parallel universes. Or in the
shattered timeline, there is an alternate /savior/; Sirius, Tom
Riddle, Dumbledore, Godric Gryffindor, person(s) not yet introduced,
etc....

But, like I said, too many, too complex, too unresolvable problems
with that choice. Especially when the book implies a simpler more
reasonable explanation and more workable theory of time travel.

You're free to believe what you want, but it's far simpler for
TT!Harry to arrive at 6pm and hide in the forest until it time for him
to save himself. A theory which very closely mirrors the books account
of what happened.

Just one man's opinion.

Steve/bboyminn