James, a paragon of virtue? Was: Why Do You Like Sirius?

[cubfanbudwoman]

No: HPFGUIDX 123631


Carol:
> Severus, in contrast, clearly *knows* DADA in detail and clearly 
> cares about what he knows. He's not trying to get a high mark for 
> its own sake or to "get by" like rich boys Sirius and James, who 
> won't need to earn a living when they finish school. Severus 
> clearly wants to *master* the subject, possibly to use it in his 
> career, possibly because the subject itself is important to him. 
> Just because a student studies doesn't mean he or she isn't 
> naturally bright. Look at Hermione.
> 
> Snape quite possibly has the same sort of retentive memory as
> Hermione, which enables him to write more than the question probably
> calls for in response to the DADA OWL. 


SSSusan:
I think there's a WHOLE lotta assumin' goin' on here.  How do know 
all this stuff about Severus Snape -- that he clearly *cares* about 
what he knows, that he's not interested in getting a high mark just 
for a high mark's sake but because he wants to *master* the subject?  
How do we know he's not studying hard and trying to do well because 
he wants to impress or please his potential boss, Lord Voldemort?  

How do we know that his writing a long response on his DADA OWL exam 
means he has a strong, retentive memory?  I DO think the man is very 
bright and skilled, at least as we see him as an adult, but surely 
there are other possibilities than what you've stated that this scene 
shows?  How 'bout he's struggled to come up with a response, has had 
lots of fits & starts or moments of "writer's block," and so he's 
rushing to complete the essay at the end?  How do we know he's not a 
master bullshitter?  I mean, *I* know all about that skill -- I got 
by on quite a few exams through a combination of quick comprehension 
of material and a good, strong ability to bullshit my way through an 
essay.  And guess what?  I was often one of the last ones to turn in 
my exams.

I just don't see how you know all this stuff about Severus, sorry.


Carol:
> Snape has memorized many complicated potions, which he transfers to 
> the chalkboard with a flick of his wand. And we *know* that Snape 
> is bright. We've seen him put two and two together time and
> again. We never see Sirius do anything of the sort. As for James, we
> don't see him do much of anything except tease Remus about being a
> werewolf, show off with a Snitch, hex Severus, and talk briefly to a
> girl who thinks he's a bully.

SSSusan:
You're mixing time periods here.  Snape *does* do what you say 
[though I suppose it could also be that he's simply "recorded" those 
complicated potion recipes in his wand and that he "releases" those 
instructions with a flick of his wand], but he's an ADULT who's been 
teaching his subject area for more than a dozen years.  You're 
comparing that to what we see of Sirius & James as teens.  We *have* 
no examples of James in his adult work setting, nor Sirius, really.  
Sirius was removed from the opportunity to learn a trade, practice 
any skills, for most of his adult life.  I just don't see much sense 
in comparing adult Snape to teen James or Sirius and trying to show 
that it means Snape is brighter than they were.


Carol:
> All we have is the fact that James became Head Boy and the 
> testimony of the less than objective Minerva McGonagall, who never 
> saw those boys in Potions or DADA or or Charms or any subject 
> except Transfiguration.

SSSusan:
I don't think I'd class James' being chosen as Head Boy as something 
trivially "all" we have.  Rather, I think it's a BIG-time clue to his 
brightness.  And presumably, before a Head Boy or Girl is selected, 
at least all Heads of House, if not all Hogwarts staff, are involved 
in the process, as they try to ascertain which students are deserving 
of the honor & responsibility.

Sorry.  I respect many things about Snape and enjoy his character, 
but I just don't think we know all of these things about him.

Siriusly Snapey Susan