CHAPTER DISCUSSIONS: Chapter Thirty seven - The lost prophecy

Sun Feb 6 02:41:20 UTC 2005

No: HPFGUIDX 124028

My apologies for this being late. The summary is LONG ( I mean it) 
and it would have been much longer, if wonderful Penapart elf would 
not have helped me to edit it. I just had trouble throwing out 
anything from this chapter.

So, many thanks to Penapart Elf.

Please feel free to skip the summary and go right to discussion 
questions and of course feel free to add your own discussion 
questions.

Chapter 37 - The Lost Prophecy.

	The chapter starts with Harry landing in Dumbledore's 
office. Harry is blaming himself for Sirius's death, while he waits 
for Dumbledore. Phineas Nigellus tries to talk to Harry, but Harry 
cannot bring himself to tell him that Sirius is dead.

	Dumbledore arrives; he puts baby Fawkes on the tray of 
ashes, and then tells Harry that none of the students will suffer 
lasting damage after MoM.

	Dumbledore tells Harry that the fact that he can suffer like 
that proves that Harry is still human and that this is his greatest 
strength.

	Harry does not want to talk about how he feels.  Rage fills 
him up and he screams that he just wants all of it to end. Harry 
wants to run out from Dumbledore's office, but Dumbledore won't open 
the door.

	Dumbledore says that he won't let Harry go, till he had his 
say. Although Harry protests, Dumbledore insists, because "you are 
not nearly as angry with me as you should be."

	The Headmaster says that it is his fault that Sirius died, 
because Sirius was not the type to sit at home while others are in 
danger. Dumbledore tells Harry that if he was as open with him as he 
should have been, Harry would have known earlier that Voldemort 
would try to lure him to the Department of Mysteries and Harry would 
not have been tricked into going there and Sirius would not have 
gone after Harry. Dumbledore says that the blame lies with him and 
him alone.
Phineas then asks Dumbledore whether it is true that his 
great-great-grandson is dead.  When Dumbledore confirms the news, 
Phineas does not believe it and goes to check on it in Grimmauld 
Place.

	Dumbledore asks Harry to sit down, because he owes Harry an 
explanation of "an old man's mistakes." Dumbledore tells Harry about 
him figuring out that thanks to the scar, Harry became more and more 
connected to Voldemort. Harry responds that Snape told him that 
part. Dumbledore corrects him "Professor Snape, Harry" and inquires 
whether Harry wondered why Dumbledore himself did not teach him 
Occlumency.Harry confirms that he had wondered. Dumbledore tells him 
that he was afraid that Voldemort may try to use Harry to spy on 
him; Dumbledore says he was trying to protect Harry, therefore he 
distanced himself. 

	Dumbledore acknowledges that even though he believes he was 
correct in assuming that Voldemort may have tried to use Harry this 
way, to distance himself was an old man's mistake, because as 
Voldemort demonstrated in the battle of MoM, the possession was done 
to kill Harry, not Dumbledore.Dumbledore continues talking. He tells 
that after Sirius told him about Harry's visions of Arthur's attack, 
Dumbledore arranged occlumency lessons with Professor Snape.  
Meanwhile Harry notices that Phineas had still not returned.

	The headmaster talks about Professor Snape discovering that 
Harry had been dreaming about the door to Department of Mysteries 
for months and since Voldemort was obsessed with hearing the 
prophecy for months, so was Harry, although he did not know what it 
meant. Dumbledore says that when Harry saw Rookwood, it became even 
more important that Harry learned Occlumency. Harry responds that he 
did not learn it; he did not practice, even though Hermione kept 
telling him to do it. Harry feels heavy guilt inside of him again.

	Harry tells Dumbledore that he spoke to Kreacher in the 
fire, who told him that Sirius was not there. Dumbledore explains to 
Harry about Kreacher's treachery in detail. Harry wonders how 
Dumbledore knows all that. The headmaster responds that Snape 
figured out what Harry's warning about Padfoot meant and checked on 
Sirius right away. According to Dumbledore when Harry did not return 
from the trip to Forbidden Forest, Snape grew worried and alerted 
certain order members at once. Tonks, Moody, Kingsley and Remus 
agreed to go to Harry's aid. Snape requested that Sirius remained 
behind to report to Dumbledore,who was due at Headquarters any 
minute, but Sirius decided to go to the  MoM.

	Harry changes the subject to Snape and starts blaming him. 
Harry says that Snape just sneered, when Harry told him about 
Padfoot's imprisonment, but Dumbledore rebutts that Snape had no 
choice but to not take him seriously in front of Umbridge. 
Dumbledore also says that Snape deduced what happened when Harry did 
not return from the Forest and that he gave Umbridge fake 
Veritaserum.

	Harry blames Snape for stopping Occlumency lessons and 
Dumbledore replies that he is aware of it and that it was a mistake 
for the Headmaster not to teach Harry himself, although at the time 
he was sure that nothing was more dangerous than to open Harry's 
mind further to Voldemort while in the headmaster's presence.

	Harry also complains that Snape made matters worse, that his 
scar was always hurting after the lessons. Harry wonders how 
Dumbledore knows that Snape was not trying to soften him up for 
Voldemort.  Dumbledore interrupts him half way into the sentence and 
replies with "I trust Severus Snape." Dumbledore also says that he 
forgot that some wounds run too deep for healing and that he thought 
that Professor Snape could overcome his feelings about James. 
Dumbledore admits that he was wrong to think that.

	Harry gets angry again and blames Dumbledore for locking 
Sirius up in the house he hated and Dumbledore responds that he was 
trying to keep Sirius alive. Harry observes Dumbledore and gets even 
angrier that Dumbledore shows signs of weakness, because Dumbledore 
has no business being weak while Harry wants to rage and storm at 
him.

	Dumbledore asks Harry to sit down, because he is going to 
tell Harry everything. Dumbledore tells Harry that five years ago he 
arrived at Hogwarts safe though not quite whole. Harry had suffered. 
Dumbledore knew that he was condemning Harry to ten dark and 
difficult years, when he was leaving Harry on Dursleys' door steps. 
Dumbledore says that his priority was to keep Harry alive. Even 
though Voldemort was gone, his followers were still at large and 
Dumbledore also did not believe that Voldemort was gone forever.

	Dumbledore decided to protect Harry with an ancient magic 
which Voldemort despises and has always underestimated. Dumbledore 
says that he is talking about the fact that Lily died to protect 
Harry and gave him protection that Voldemort never expected. 
Dumbledore puts his trust in Lily's blood and delivered Harry to her 
sister, Lily's only remaining relative.

	Harry says that she never loved him. Dumbledore responds 
that Petunia took Harry in "grudgingly, furiously, unwillingly," but 
she still took Harry in and by doing so sealed the charm Dumbledore 
placed. The essence of the charm is that while Harry can call the 
place his mother's blood dwells his home, he cannot be touched or 
harmed by Voldemort. Harry needs only to return there once a year. 
Dumbledore also says that Petunia knows it, because he explained it 
in the letter he left on their doorsteps.

	Harry realizes that Dumbledore sent the Howler to Petunia 
when they wanted to throw him out after the Dementors' attack. 
Dumbledore admits to that and says that he thought that Petunia 
needed reminding of the pact she had sealed. Harry wonders what it 
has to do with Dumbledore's plan, so Dumbledore reiterates that when 
five years ago Harry arrived at Hogwarts, he thought that his 
plan was working well.

	Dumbledore remembers the events of Harry's first year and 
tells him how proud he was of him. Nevertheless the Headmaster says 
that he discovered the flaw in his plan, but thought that he could 
prevent it. Dumbledore tells Harry that he could not bring himself 
to add another burden on his shoulders, because he cared about Harry 
so much.

	Dumbledore tells Harry that he knows Harry had been ready 
for such knowledge for a long time. Dumbledore tells him that 
Voldemort tried to kill him when Harry was a child because of a 
prophecy made shortly before Harry's birth. When Voldemort attempted 
to kill Harry, according to Dumbledore, he believed that he was 
fulfilling the prophecy. Ever since Voldemort returned to his body, 
he was determined to hear that prophecy in its entirety.

	Dumbledore tells Harry that the weapon Voldemort was so 
actively seeking the whole year was the knowledge of how to destroy 
Harry. Harry tells Dumbledore that the prophecy smashed, but the 
Headmaster replies that that was only a record, because the person 
who heard it has the means to recall it perfectly.

	Dumbledore explains that he was the one who initially heard 
the prophecy in the Hogs Head sixteen years ago. He was conducting a 
job interview with Trelawney, who is a great granddaughter of a very 
famous and gifted seer. Dumbledore was disappointed to see no trace 
of the gift in Sybil.  Just as he turned to leave, she made the 
following prophecy:

"The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches...born 
to 
those 
who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies...and the 
Dark Lord 
will mark him as his equal, but he will have power the Dark Lord 
knows 
not...and either must die at the hand of the other for neither can 
live 
while the 
other survives...the one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord 
will 
be born 
as the seventh month dies..."

	Harry wonders what it means and Dumbledore tells him that 
the boy will be born at the end of July from the parents who already 
defied him thrice with the power to defeat Voldemort. Harry wonders 
whether it is him and Dumbledore replies that it may not have been 
him, because he and Neville Longbottom were born under similar 
circumstances. Nevertheless Dumbledore is sure now that it is 
definitely Harry, because Voldemort chose him (marked him as equal), 
not Neville.

	Dumbledore tells Harry that Voldemort saw himself in Harry 
and that he chose not the pureblood Neville, but half-blood Harry. 
According to the Headmaster, in failing to kill Harry, Voldemort 
gave Harry powers and a future, which had fitted Harry to escape 
Voldy not three, but four times.

	Harry wonders why Voldemort tried to kill him as a baby 
since it would be more logical to wait to see who indeed was more 
dangerous once he and Neville were older.

	Dumbledore tells Harry that it happened this way because 
Voldemort only knows the first part of the prophecy about the birth 
of the baby who will have the power to kill him. Dumbledore explains 
that there was an eavesdropper in the Hogs Head that night, who was 
thrown out of the building after he had been discovered.

	Harry says that he doesn't have any powers that can help him 
against Voldemort. Dumbledore tells him that there is a room in the 
Department of Mysteries which is filled with most wonderful, 
mysterious and powerful force. Harry possesses that power which is 
within that room. Supposedly, this power helped Harry to save 
himself from Voldemort's possession. 

	Harry realizes that according to the prophecy either he or 
Voldemort have to kill each other.Dumbledore also informs Harry that 
he did not choose him as a prefect because Harry had enough 
responsibility to be going on with. When Harry looks up he 
sees a single tear on Dumbledore's cheek.

Discussion questions:

1. Do you think we will ever meet Phineas again? What do you think 
about the possibility of the network of portraits playing even 
larger role in the later battles?

2. Harry blames himself for Sirius's death. Do you?

3. Dumbledore is sure that Harry IS the person the prophecy talks 
about. Are you? 

4. Harry complains to Dumbledore that Occlumency lessons were 
weakening him. Dumbledore replies with his usual vow of trust for 
Snape. Do you trust Snape? 

5.  Dumbledore blames himself for Sirius death. Do you?

6. Voldemort did not choose the pureblood wizard like 
Neville "which, according to his creed, is the only kind of wizard 
worth being or knowing."
Does this quote make a difference in your view on whether Voldemort 
himself is sufficiently interested in promoting "purebloodism" or 
just in grabbing power, no matter who helps him achieve it?

7.  Do you agree with the possibility that Neville may turn out to 
be the real prophecy child? 

8. Do you think that there is a possibility that the prophecy does 
not speak about either Harry or Neville? Can you offer completely 
new and unexpected interpretation of it?

9. Dumbledore tells us that Sibyll is the great granddaughter of 
Cassandra Trelawney. As we know from mythology, nobody believed 
Cassandra's predictions which turned out to be true. Do you think 
that JKR is hinting that Sibyll is a more gifted seer that 
Dumbledore thinks? Do you think that there is more to Sibyll than 
meets the eye?

10.  Who is the infamous eavesdropper?

11. Dumbledore tells Harry, "In the end, it mattered not that you 
could not close your mind.  It was your heart that saved you."  Does 
this mean that occlumency lessons were unnecessary in the first 
place? Was Dumbledore aware that Harry has plenty of that power in 
that room BEFORE possession occurred?

12.  Do you think that this chapter was well done "plot wise"? I 
don't remember my complete reaction when I read it for the first 
time, but I remember that disappointment was definitely there.  I 
was thinking something like "that is the big secret"? Do you think 
that it would have been more effective if Harry learns about the 
contents of the prophecy from somebody else? Yesterday for 
some reason I was imagining Voldemort explaining things to Harry 
instead of Dumbledore. "Potter, we have to kill one another or be 
killed. You better be prepared." :o)
What do you think?

13. We see Dumbledore crying in this chapter for the first time in 
the books. Despite the fact that a similar question was already 
posted couple of days ago,(message 123486) I decided not to delete 
mine. What did you feel when you read about Dumbledore's tear?

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