CHAPTER DISCUSSIONS: Chapter Thirty seven - The lost prophecy . REPOST

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 124034



Alla:

OK, this is the repost. The discussions questions are absolutely the 
same. The summary looks shorter and much better ( I think) Many 
thanks again to Penapart Elf for the help.

CHAPTER DISCUSSION: Chapter 37, The Lost Prophecy

The chapter starts with Harry landing in Dumbledore's office.  
Feeling guilty about Sirius's death, Harry cannot bring himself to 
tell Phineas Nigellus that Sirius is dead when the portrait brings 
up the subject.

Dumbledore arrives and tells Harry that none of the students will 
suffer lasting damage after MoM.  But even after explaining that the 
fact that he can suffer like this proves that Harry is still human 
and that this is his greatest strength, Dumbledore cannot ease 
Harry's pain from shame and the loss of the closest thing to a 
parent he had ever known.

On the contrary, Harry's rage fills him up and he screams that he 
just wants it to end.  Refusing to let Harry run away, Dumbledore 
insists on having his say because, as he states to Harry, "you are 
not nearly as angry with me as you ought to be."

The Headmaster asserts that it is almost entirely his fault that 
Sirius died, because Sirius was not the type to sit at home while 
others are in danger. For if Dumbledore was as open with Harry as he 
should have been, Harry would have known earlier that Voldemort 
would try to lure him to the Department of Mysteries.  Harry would 
not have been tricked into going there and Sirius would not have 
gone after Harry. That blame thus lies with Dumbledore and him 
alone.  Hearing this, Phineas asks whether it is true that the last 
of the Blacks is dead.  Refusing to take Dumbledore's word for it, 
Phineas leaves, perhaps to see Grimmauld Place for himself.

Dumbledore's explanation of "an old man's mistakes" begins with 
Harry's scar and its role in Harry's ever-growing connection to 
Voldemort.  We finally learn why Dumbledore himself did not teach 
Occlumency to Harry: Dumbledore was afraid that once Voldemort 
becomes aware of this connection, he may try to use Harry to spy on 
him. In distancing himself the headmaster was trying to protect 
Harry from being possessed/used by Voldemort.

Dumbledore acknowledges that even though he believes he was correct 
in assuming that Voldemort would have tried to use Harry this way, 
to distance himself was an old man's mistake, because as Voldemort 
demonstrated in the battle of MoM, the possession was done to kill 
Harry, not Dumbledore.

We learn that after Dumbledore was told by Sirius about Harry 
detecting Voldemort inside himself after the vision of Arthur's 
attack, he arranged occlumency lessons with Professor Snape.  The 
headmaster brings up Professor Snape's discovery of Harry dreaming 
about the door to the DoM for months and explains that since 
Voldemort was obsessed with hearing the prophecy, so was Harry, 
although he did not know what it meant.

After Rookwood revealed to Voldemort that only Voldemort or Harry 
can take hold of the prophecy, it became even more urgent that 
Harrylearned to resist Voldemort's assaults on Harry's mind.  Harry 
feels heavy guilt; he did not practice Occlumency, even though 
Hermione kept telling him to do it.

Harry tells of checking on Sirius. Dumbledore explains to Harry 
about Kreacher's treachery in detail.  The headmaster tells of how 
Snape figured out what Harry's warning about Padfoot meant and 
checked on Sirius right away. According to Dumbledore when Harry did 
not return from the trip to Forbidden Forest, Snape grew worried and 
alerted certain order members at once. Tonks, Moody, Kingsley and 
Remus agreed to go to Harry's aid. Snape requested that Sirius 
remained behind to report to Dumbledore, who was due at Headquarters 
any minute, but Sirius decided to go to the MoM, just as Kreacher 
intended.

Harry goes off on a rant about how Snape just sneered when Harry 
told him about Padfoot's imprisonment. Dumbledore rebuts that Snape 
had no choice but to not take him seriously in front of Umbridge, 
that it was Snape who deduced what happened when Harry did not 
return from the Forest and that he gave Umbridge fake Veritaserum.

Undeterred, Harry blames Snape for stopping the Occlumency lessons.  
Dumbledore counters that his not teaching Harry himself was his 
mistake, although at the time he was sure that nothing was more 
dangerous than to open Harry's mind further to Voldemort while in 
the headmaster's presence.

Harry also complains that Snape made matters worse, that his scar 
was always hurting after the lessons, and demands to know how 
Dumbledore is sure that Snape was not trying to soften him up for 
Voldemort.  Dumbledore interrupts him with "I trust Severus Snape" 
and notes that he forgot that some wounds run too deep for healing.  
He admits that he was wrong to think that Professor Snape could 
overcome his feelings about James.

Harry also blames Dumbledore for locking Sirius up in the house he 
hated, which made Sirius want to get out and go to the MoM.  
Dumbledore responds that he was trying to keep Sirius alive.  Now 
seeming exhausted or sad (which only infuriates Harry even more 
since he wants to rage and storm), Dumbledore asks Harry to sit down 
because he is going to tell Harry everything.

Five years ago Harry arrived at Hogwarts safe though not quite 
whole. Harry had suffered. Dumbledore knew that he was condemning 
Harry to ten dark and difficult years when he left Harry on the 
Dursleys' door steps. Dumbledore's priority was to keep Harry alive. 
Even though Voldemort was vanquished, his followers were still at 
large and Voldemort was not gone forever.

Dumbledore decided to exploit Voldemort's weakness by protecting 
Harry with an ancient magic which Voldemort despises and has thus 
always underestimated. Because Lily died to protect Harry, she gave 
him protection that Voldemort never expected. Dumbledore puts his 
trust in Lily's blood and delivered Harry to her sister, Lily's only 
remaining relative.  Though Petunia never loved Harry, she did take 
Harry in though grudgingly, furiously, and unwillingly.  In doing 
so (with full knowledge of the protection she may be providing), 
Petunia sealed the strongest shield at Dumbledore's disposal. While 
Harry can call the place where his mother's blood dwells his home, 
he cannot be touched or harmed by Voldemort.

Harry realizes that Dumbledore is the one who sent the Howler to 
Petunia when they wanted to throw him out after the Dementors' 
attack. Dumbledore admits that he thought Petunia needed reminding 
of the pact she had sealed.

Harry wonders what all this has to do with Sirius as Dumbledore 
picks up where he left off.  Five years ago, Dumbledore thought that 
his plan was working well for though Harry was not as happy/well 
nourished as he would have liked, Harry was as normal as could be 
hoped for under the circumstances and far from a pampered little 
prince.

Dumbledore's plan does have a flaw, one that he alone can prevent 
and so that is what he endeavored to do.  But because Dumbledore 
wanted to save Harry more pain than the young boy had already 
suffered, the old man fails over and over again to simultaneously 
arm *and* burden Harry with the whole truth: that Voldemort tried to 
kill him when Harry was a child because of a prophecy made shortly 
before Harry's birth. When Voldemort attempted to kill Harry, he 
believed that he was fulfilling the prophecy.  The weapon Voldemort 
has been seeking is the knowledge of how to destroy Harry and thus 
his determination to hear 
the rest of the prophecy.

Though the prophecy has smashed, it was only a record.  Dumbledore 
has the means to recall it perfectly since he is the one who 
initially heard the prophecy in the Hog's Head sixteen years ago 
during a job interview with Trelawney.  As Sybil is a great-great-
granddaughter of a very famous and gifted seer, Dumbledore was 
disappointed to see no trace of the gift in her.  Just as he turned 
to leave, she made the following prophecy:


"The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches...born 
to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month 
dies...and the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal, but he will 
have power the Dark Lord knows not...and either must die at the hand 
of the other for neither can live while the other survives...the one 
with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord will be born as the seventh 
month dies..."


Dumbledore tells Harry that the person with the only chance to 
conquer Voldemort for good was born at the end of July from the 
parents who already defied him thrice. Two boys were born under 
similar circumstances, Harry and Neville Longbottom. Dumbledore is 
sure now that it is definitely Harry, because Voldemort chose him 
(marked him as equal), not Neville.  Voldemort saw himself in Harry 
and chose not the pureblood Neville, but half-blood Harry.

In failing to kill Harry, Voldemort gave Harry powers and a future, 
which had fitted Harry to escape Voldy not three, but four times.  
Harry wonders why Voldemort tried to kill him as a baby since it 
would be more logical to wait to see who indeed was more dangerous 
once he and Neville were older.

Voldemort's misstep stemmed from knowing only the first part of the 
prophecy about the birth of the boy who's to be his downfall. His 
informant was thrown out of the Hog's Head before Sybil got to the 
part about the boy having power the Dark Lord knows not.

Harry protests that he doesn't have any powers that Voldemort hasn't 
got. Dumbledore corrects him and tells Harry that he possesses a 
force "more wonderful and more terrible than death, than human 
intelligence, than forces of nature" and perhaps the most mysterious 
of all subjects being studied in the DoM.  So much so that the room 
containing this force is kept locked at all times.

In his heart, Harry has this force in great quantities while 
Voldemort not at all.  This power took Harry to save Sirius as well 
as saved Harry from Voldemort's possession for Voldemort was 
repelled by the force he detests.

Dumbledore confirms that according to the prophecy either Harry or 
Voldemort have to kill the other.  Dumbledore also informs Harry 
that he did not choose him as a prefect because Harry had enough 
responsibility to be going on with. When Harry looks up he sees a 
single tear on Dumbledore's cheek.

Discussion questions:

1. Do you think we will ever meet Phineas again? What do you think 
about the possibility of the network of portraits playing even 
larger role in the later battles?

2. Harry blames himself for Sirius's death. Do you?

3. Dumbledore is sure that Harry IS the person the prophecy talks 
about. Are you? 

4. Harry complains to Dumbledore that Occlumency lessons were 
weakening him. Dumbledore replies with his usual vow of trust for 
Snape. Do you trust Snape? 

5.  Dumbledore blames himself for Sirius death. Do you?

6. Voldemort did not choose the pureblood wizard like 
Neville "which, according to his creed, is the only kind of wizard 
worth being or knowing."
Does this quote make a difference in your view on whether Voldemort 
himself is sufficiently interested in promoting "purebloodism" or 
just in grabbing power, no matter who helps him achieve it?

7.  Do you agree with the possibility that Neville may turn out to 
be the real prophecy boy? 

8. Do you think that there is a possibility that the prophecy does 
not speak about either Harry or Neville? Can you offer completely 
new and unexpected interpretation of it?

9. Dumbledore tells us that Sibyll is the great granddaughter of 
Cassandra Trelawney. As we know from mythology, nobody believed 
Cassandra's predictions which turned out to be true. Do you think 
that JKR is hinting that Sibyll is a more gifted seer that 
Dumbledore thinks? Do you think that there is more to Sibyll than 
meets the eye?

10.  Who is the infamous eavesdropper?

11. Dumbledore tells Harry, "In the end, it mattered not that you 
could not close your mind.  It was your heart that saved you."  Does 
this mean that occlumency lessons were unnecessary in the first 
place? Was Dumbledore aware that Harry has plenty of that power in 
that room BEFORE possession occurred?

12.  Do you think that this chapter was well done "plot wise"? I 
don't remember my complete reaction when I read it for the first 
time, but I remember that disappointment was definitely there.  I 
was thinking something like "that is the big secret"? Do you think 
that it would have been more effective if Harry learns about the 
contents of the prophecy from somebody else? Yesterday for some 
reason I was imagining Voldemort explaining things to Harry instead 
of Dumbledore. "Potter, we have to kill one another or be killed. 
You better be 
prepared." :o) What do you think?

13. We see Dumbledore crying in this chapter for the first time in 
the books. Despite the fact that a similar question was already 
posted couple of days ago, I decided not to delete mine. What did 
you feel when you read about Dumbledore's tear?


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