JKR's Single Biggest Error - ie: Veritaserum

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 124048


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "dumbledore11214"
<dumbledore11214 at y...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Bboyminn:
>   
> I still maintain my position that people jump into the use of
> Veritaserum a little too easily and a little too quickly.
>   
> Ask yourself this, why, in this one instance (Sirius), would they 
> have been motivated to use Truth Serum? They caught Sirius at the 
> scene, they had eye/ear testimmony of witnesses. ... given what 
> seemed like overwhelming evidence, I can't imagine why the idea of 
> using Truth Serum would have occurred to anyone.
>  
>  Alla:
>  
> What do you  mean, a little bit too quickly? Veritaserum is a drug, 
> which makes you tell the truth - not from time time , but ALWAYS. 
> ...edited...
>  
> It seems VERY inconsistent to me that veritaserum is not used in ALL 
> criminal investigations of WW. I mean, we don't know maybe it IS 
> used in some, but then again why wasn't it used in Sirius' hearing, 
> investigation, whatever occurred there?
>  
> ...edited...
> 
> I guess the answer I want to know is if veritaserum is not supposed 
> to be used in situation like Sirius' than when exactly it is 
> supposed to be used for? 
> 
> ...edited..
> 
> Definitely not, but  don't you think that Veritaserum was created to 
> be answer to SOME? I want to know which ones JKR had in mind. 
> 
> Just my opinion of course,
>  
> Alla

bboyminn:

Well, I can't speak to wizard law, but any country that has a basic
Bill of Rights, and the wizard world does have the Wizangamont Charter
of Rights, has a provision that says a defendant can't be compelled to
testify against himself; it's basic human rights.

If you want to forget about the muggle lie detector, fine, then let's
consider the many muggle /truth/ serums. Why don't they force every
person accused of a crime in the real world to take /truth serum/?
Why? Because, it's against the law. It's a violation of basic human
rights. 

I will agree that there may be some circumstances in which muggle lie
detectors, hypnosis, and truth serum might be useful and legal tools
in or out of the wizard world, but those situations are rare.

That said, other than implying that Veritaserum should be used in
every single criminal case, which it clearly is not, you haven't
really addressed the logic of WHY it should have been used in Sirius's
case.

They have evidence that Sirius was the Potter's Secret Keeper. We know
that was a mistake, but they don't know that yet. They found Sirius at
the scene. They had eye witness accounts that Sirius and Peter had a
confrontation. Eye/ear witnesses gave accounts of Peter accusing
Sirius of killing the Potters. Sirius may have even admitted he killed
the Potters, although we know he didn't mean that in the context of
personally murdering them. However, witnesses and the Ministry do know
or understand that alternate context. It is reasonably implied that
Sirius was in a mental state caused by shock and grief, that left him
unable or unwilling to defend himself. The are substantial indications
that Sirius at the time was acting quite deranged. Further,
interpretations of eye witness accounts, indeed indicated that Sirius
murdered Peter and killed a pack of muggles in the process.

-Sirius was known to be the Secret Keeper.
-Sirius was captured at the scene.
-Eye witnesses saw the confrontation between Sirius and Peter.
-Eye witnesses heard Peter accuse Sirius of the murders.
-Eye witnesses claimed they saw Sirius murder Peter and the muggles. 
-Sirius seemed reasonably mad and deranged.
-Sirius may have implied a responsibility for the Potter's Deaths.
-...and more.

So where is the doubt? Many people have been convicted on a lot less
evidence than that. So, given the overwhelming evidence and firm
belief that Sirius commited the crime, why would it occur to anyone to
use Veritaserum? Where is the element of doubt in all that
overwhelming evidence that would have prompted anyone to use Truth
Serum for confirmation? 

The answer is, given eye witnesses to the murder of Peter by Sirius,
there wouldn't have been any doubt at all, and so, there would be no
need for Truth Serum confirmation.

Yes, I can see some situation in which truth serum might be used, but
Sirius's situation clearly wasn't one of those.

Just calling it like I see it.

Steve/bboyminn