Dumbledore the General (long)

[bleckybecs]

No: HPFGUIDX 124283


Nicky Joe
Dumbledore lost all credibility in OoP for me with his mind- 
numbingly stupid decision not to tell Harry anything about the 
prophecy. (snip) AND to do nothing proactive to trap Voldemort, even 
though he knew LV was desperate to get his hands on the thing - when 
you have something the enemy wants, the ball is in your court. DD 
had Harry and the prophecy both and he did nothing.

phoenixgod2000
He didn't do anything with his ace in the hole, the prophecy. There 
are so many ways to trick, manipulate, and force Voldemort's hand 
using that gem, my mind literally boggles. He just guarded it until 
Voldemort was able to trick Harry into going after it. Not the most 
proactive thing in the world.

Becky
DD came over as more human and far more vulnerable than I had 
previously thought because of his `mind-numbingly stupid decision', 
which I do agree is what it was. However, why would you want DD to 
trap LV? It is *Harry* who has the power to `vanquish' LV, not DD. I 
don't see what that would achieve. I may be missing something, but 
it seems altogether pointless to me.
As to DD doing nothing, I don't see it that way. He may have made 
defensive moves, but in relation to the prophecy, that seems to be 
the only reasonable thing to do.  No member of OOTP would be able to 
retrieve, or even destroy the MoM's copy of the prophecy without 
going mad. Short of asking Harry to pop along to the MoM himself 
(when he's due in front of the court?
 in the middle of studies?
 
while getting his yearly dose of protection from Petunia?), it was 
the *only* realistic thing to do.

Nicky Joe:
My chief irritation with DD is that he had FIFTEEN years to plan for 
LV's return. Couldn't he have spent a couple hours of that fifteen 
years making a few plans? Hmmm, let's say Voldemort returns to full 
strength one day. What shall we do? I know, let's wait around and 
hope that little Harry grows up to be a big strong wizard that can 
take him out - oh wait, we already know that happens because the 
prophecy says so. Great! We'll just sit here and eat some candies.

Becky
How do we know he hasn't been planning for the last 15 years? He 
apparently spends a lot of time pacing in his study, which sounds a 
lot like someone in thought to me. Unfortunately, a lot of my view 
is based on my feeling that an awful lot of what the order is doing 
is being done quietly, and we're not privy to it yet. That feeling 
comes from the discussion at the kitchen table in OOTP where Harry's 
questioning is cut off. I'm certain there's way way more than meets 
the eye. I'm sure those parchments of Bill's are hiding something 
important. It is just speculation and my personal feeling, but as DD 
appeared to leap into action at the end of GoF, I'm sure he won't 
have then immediately stopped being pro-active. 

phoenixgod2000
He didn't get Harry magical training to teach him how to use all 
that raw talent of his. Instead he left Harry to languish alone for 
two months. And Harry is the most important person on the side of 
light in this particular war!

Becky
I'm sure I've already read a similar answer to the one I'm going to 
give, forgive me if it's identical!
Harry has been training, and training up others in the DA. The other 
person who gave this reason went into more detail. My point would be 
that DD saw no need to train Harry when he could see Harry was doing 
it himself. He offered help in the place he saw it was lacking 
(occlumency), however effective / well thought through / sensible 
the choice of teacher, etc, it was. I'm sure DD was well aware of 
the group (certainly Sirius knew about it without HRH telling him).

Apologies now, this thread is so huge I'm having difficulty finding 
the things I want to answer, however, I'm going to do so without the 
original posting. Sorry! Someone suggested Harry would make a better 
leader than DD, but below I have listed one example of how DD's 
knowledge and understanding and even his ability to evaluate a 
situation is far better than Harry's. Harry makes a good fighter and 
even a good teacher / trainer. He would not make a good General. JMO!

This whole business of `someone should have told Harry about how LV 
might try to manipulate his scar connection' is all very well, and 
yes, they should. But something appears to have been overlooked. 
This situation and particular scar appears to be unique, there is 
*no* previous example of it. Who explained to DD how it might be 
used? Where can he possibly have looked it up? No-one and nowhere. 
DD put two and two together himself. DD made an educated guess. 
Harry didn't. He may not have had quite as much information as DD, 
but he had enough to make the same educated guess and to have pretty 
much the same idea.

Also, in another related thought, a General would know to go for 
their enemy's weakest point. This is not necessarily to go in and AK 
them all.

DD evidently believes that there *is* something worse than death  - 
Pg.718 OOTP
`There is nothing worse than death, Dumbledore!' snarled Voldemort.
`You are quite wrong,' said Dumbledore
 `Indeed, your failure to 
understand that there are things worse than death has always been 
your greatest weakness - '

So we know what LV's weakest point is. He has protected himself 
against *death*, not whatever it is that DD is referring to here. 
Which leads to the thought - What is DD thinking of in particular? 
What *is* worse than death? 

These thoughts then lead to - Who do we know in the story who would 
probably better off dead than as they are in LV's point of view? 
Lockhart, the Longbottoms and all Muggles.  Wouldn't it be ultimate 
irony if LV ended up with all magic powers removed and effectively 
be only a muggle? However, I don't think that is what DD is thinking 
of, so I'm just going to have to keep thinking on that one!

Just part of my long rambling thoughts which I have cut down. Anyone 
who wants to see the whole lot is more than welcome to ask for 
them! :)

Becky - who has just realised how huge this post is
 time for bed I 
think!