Dumbledore the General

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 124306


Betsy:
Again, the idea that Dumbledore, et al have *not* been pro-actively 
working since Voldemort's first downfall is a mere guess on your 
part.  And one not very well backed by canon.  The prosectution of 
Death Eaters who walked free, the business with the Stone (Voldemort 
himself admits to falling into despair when Quirrell failed), the 
renewal of the Triwizard Tournament (which you *know* took more than 
two months worth of planning to get off the ground), the harassement 
of Lucius and friends by Authur Weasley and similarly minded Ministry 
fellows, the placement of Snape as head of Slytherin, the careful 
chipping away of old house rivalries, all speak to a careful laying 
>of groundwork against Voldemort's return.

Alla:

Nope, it does not speak of careful laying of groundwork against 
Voldemort return. Not necessarily at least and not to me.

First - could you explain what renewal of Triwizard torunament has to 
do with preparing for Voldemort's return?

Second - I am one of those who believes that Dumbledore wanted Harry 
to have a go at Voldemort with "stone business", so I am afraid I 
don't see this one as "purposefully keeping stone out of Voldemort's 
hands".

Third - could you point out to "careful chipping away of House old 
rivalries"? I see Gryffindor/Slytherin house rivalry as strong as 
ever, unfortunately ( hopefully this will change). I mean, sure DA 
was formed, but three other houses never were exactly enemies anyway, 
except on Quiditch field. 


Betsy:

> Also, you once again completely over look the business with the 
> Stone.  Dumbledore *pro-actively* kept the Stone out of Voldemort's 
> hands. 

Alla:

As I said above, I tend to believe Harry's words about Dumbledore 
giving him a chance for now, therefore I read "stone business" as 
completely opposite from yours.




Betsy:
It seems to me that in order to argue that Dumbledore has been doing 
nothing, you have to overlook some fairly stong hints in canon.  No, 
nothing has been spelled out, but that's because Harry has not been 
included in the plans.  As of the end of OotP that seems to have 
changed, so I do expect we'll get a clearer idea of what all has been 
prepared in the next book.  If Dumbledore does say, "oh, allies.  
Right.  We should get some," or something similar, then I'll agree 
that he did a poor job preparing.

Alla:

There are some hints in canon, but I don't find them to be very 
strong.

Besides, isn't it exactly what Dumbledore did? He sent the missions 
to Giants not fifteen years ago, but only after the Graveyard 
disaster. Sounds to me exactly as you said "Oh, allies, right. We 
should get some now" :o)

  
Betsy: 
But as of right now, Voldemort's return has been indisputably 
revealed (very much against Voldemort's wishes), Voldemort is still 
in the dark as to Harry's role in the whole thing, and Voldemort lost 
a good handful of Death Eaters, and a powerful influence at the 
Ministry.  Dumbledore lost one Order member.  And though the death of 
Sirius hit everyone hard, he really was the least useful member at 
that time, and the most broken.  At this point in time, Voldemort is 
dancing to Dumbledore's tune and timetable.  And that points to 
Dumbledore doing *something* right.


Alla:

I would like to know why Dumbledore should take the credit for the 
fact that Voldemort's return had been revealed?

Lauraasia argued really well that Dumbledore wanted Voldemort to come 
to MoM and have a battle there , but I am afraid I just don't see it 
all. I see Dumbledore doing everything possible to avoid Harry going 
to MoM and that means to me avoiding Voldemort's going there.

Laurasia replies:
Alla snips explanation of WHY war needs to be brought in the open, 
because completely agrees with it.

IMO, Dumbledore knows that he doesn't have to guard the Dept. of
Mysteries. He has portrait spies in the Atrium who could tell him
instantly if Voldemort was on his way down in the lift. Why bother
putting a time-consuming and energy wasting task like round-the-clock
defence on an object (which has debateable use) unless he was trying
to create a diversion?
 
I don't think the defence on the Dept. of Mysteries was necessary. If
keeping that prophecy away from Voldemort's ears was *absolutely*
necessary, then Dumbledore should have cast a Stupefy in its general
vicinity. But he doesn't. Dumbledore keeps that prophecy alive, even
though he has perfect recollection of the damn thing. Why? Why risk
another copy? IMO, it is obvious that Dumbledore is setting up a
diversion. And by putting a lot of effort into guarding it, it only
reaffirms, in Voldemort's eyes, that this is something he *needs*.
 
Dumbledore arranges for Harry to learn Occlumency. He wants Harry to
block out that corridor. Dumbledore wants Voldemort forced into going
into the MoM himself, in *person.*

Alla:

Ok, so basically you are saying that guarding the Prophecy was 
creating a diversion. I don't really see it, but I can entertain such 
reading.

I have the most problem though with your last paragraph. You agree 
that Dumbledore wanted Harry to learn Occlumency, right? So, how is 
Harry learning Occlumency well will force Voldemort into coming to 
MoM in person?

If Dumbledore really wanted that, wouldn't it be more logical for him 
to NOT insist that Harry learned Occlumency and just let him be  and 
go to MoM?

I am afraid I am still confused. Sorry! If Harry can close his mind 
to Voldemort, it means that He has no Voldie induced dreams and he is 
not going to MoM to save Sirius AND Voldemort is not going there to 
hunt Harry and prophecy. Am I missing something?



Laurasia:
IMO, Dumbledore is trying to bring the war out into the open. And he
succeeds.

Alla:

To make a long story short, I agree that war needs to be brought in 
the open and I understand the "diversion" idea, but I still don't 
understand how insisting that Harry will learn Ocllumency will 
encourage Voldemort to come to MoM.

Just my opinion,

Alla