Aurors and Unforgiveable Curses - Helplessness

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 124456


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "jlnbtr" <jlnbtr at y...> wrote:
> 
> Finwitch wrote:
> ... snip...
> 
> > As to why I think they're truly unforgivable as curses  (snip) 
> > The clue to that, I believe, is in Bellatrix' taunt ...
> > 
> > Righteous anger won't do that. You need to ENJOY doing these
> > curses if you're to cast them. Taking pleasure on absolute control 
> > over someone, causing pain or killing?


> Juli:
> 
> I think you're on to something, it is the pleasure to do harm to 
> kill  necessary to cast any unforgiveable what makes it so 
> unforgiveable. Harry wanted to hurt Bella, he wanted revenge for 
> Sirius' death, but  does he take any pleasure for it? Nope.

bboyminn:

Eeeww.... one small flaw in the theory to my way of thinking. If it
take such sadistic desire to be able to cast them, doesn't that mean
that very few people would be able to do so? I mean really, what
percentage of the population is really able to muster the degree of
sadistic pleasure? Very very few I think.

And when you get right down to it, shouldn't it be the result, that is
the crime rather the the method? Shouldn't it be the fact that you
killed someone that gets you into trouble rather than the fact that
you killed someone with one very specific curse? Isn't that about the
same as saying, it's bad if you kill someone with a 38 caliber pistol,
but it's a totally horrendous unforgivable crime if you kill them with
a 9mm? 

The /crime/, I think, to some extent, is the loss of self-control and
self-determination, for lack of a better way of saying it. For the
victim, with all the curse, free will and the power of
self-determination and self-protection is lost.

With the Imperius Mind Control Curse, obviously all free will is lost,
you can be forced to do thinks that are completely against your
nature. More so, except for people of the absolute strongest
character, it extremely difficult to resist. So, for the most part, a
wizard is defenseless against it. Hold that thought.

With the Cruciatus Pain Curse, again there is no way to resist or
defend yourself. Against common forms of muggle torture, it's possible
for someone of extremely strong character and an extremely high pain
threshold to hold out against it. Of course, that doesn't mean it
doesn't hurt. In addition, muggle torture is somewhat localized; it
hurts where they hurt you. 

On the other hand, the Pain Curse it total and complete, every cubic
inch of your body, inside and out, is searing and saturated with pain,
and there is nothing you can do to resist it. You simply have to
endure until it stops, no endorphines, no shock, no force of will or
strength of character can blunt that pain.

The Death Curse (Avada Kadavra), we have been told, can't be defended
against. You can't shield youself from it, there is no way to block
it, and it is absolute; if it touches you, you are dead. Again, no
strength of character, physical power, or skill at magic can protect you.

At least with a muggle gun, being shot isn't absolute; not all wounds
are fatal. You can shield yourself with armor or a bullet-proof vest.
No such luck with the Unforgivable Death Curse, no wounding, no
glacing blows, no shield to defend against it, no magic to block it. 

It is because of this absolute nature of the Death Curse that it is
unforgivable. If you are touched by the light, you die, and that death
is also absolute; no point in rushing to the emergency room.

Harry, however, has actually survived that curse twice. The first time
was at Godric's Hollow when his mother gave him special protection.
That's not a method most wizards can depend on for a defense. 

The second time was in the graveyard when he dueled with Voldemort.
Voldemort cast the AK-Death Curse, and Harry cast the Expelliarmus
Disarming Curse. Since there is no defense or (generally speaking)
blocking a AK Curse, Harry should have died. 

But, by at twist of fate, they both cast their curses at the same
time, and those curses collided head-to-head. It was that collision of
curses that saved Harry in that one instant in time. Beyond that
instant, it was the connected wands (Brother Effect/Reverse Spell
Efect) that prevented Voldemort from casting any more curses.

So, technically, a AK Curse can be block, but the timing of the
counter curse, and the head-on angle at which the curses must meet is
so precise that no wizard could plan for it or count on it. The only
thing that save Harry, in that one instance, was luck, and way way way
too many people have died who were counting on luck to save them.

So, I think it is the total and absolute helplessness of the victims
that make these curses so unforgivable.

Just a thought.

Steve/bboyminn