James, a paragon of virtue? Was: Why Do You Like Sirius?

[whizbang]

No: HPFGUIDX 124481


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "M.Clifford" <Aisbelmon at h...> wrote:
> If Lily doesn't understand what James means when he says, Well its 
> because he exists if you know what I mean" then why doesn't she 
> answer with, "No I don't know what you mean you bullying toerag!" 
> She *knows* what he means, and he knows that it's something that 
> matters to her because he coaxed it out of her. her reply was "You 
> think you're funny. You're just..."

Whiz: They're flirting.  ;)  Remember, Lily, like Lupin, is a
Gryffindor prefect, a position she obviously takes Siriusly.  This
scene compares with the scene in the Gryffindor common room when
Hermione intervenes in Fred and George's "testing" on first years
while Ron slips under the table.  
I can't see why anyone would argue that James hated the DA.  Sirius
said it in so many words.

> > Magda:
> > > So I would submit that Lily was not aware that James and Snape 
> > > were continuing their relations in the normal manner (to use a
> > > value-neutral expression).  Why hide it from her if there was
> > > principled reason for it, if it was an anti-DA activity?

Whiz:
How can any of us answer that question, (unless one of us is JKR).  I
can think of a number of reasons.  He suspected that Snape joined the
DEs and didn't want to endanger Lily further.  Lily was planning a
wedding/expecting a child.  He could have been protecting her.  I
don't think it's safe to speculate too far.

This is how I see this scene.

OotP, ch 28:
Harry turned to see what Sirius was looking at.
Snape was on his feet again, and was stowing the OWL paper in his bag.
As he left the shadows of the bushes and set off across the grass,
Sirius and James stood up. 

Whiz: The marauders are watching attentively. Snape was likely moving
toward them rather than away from the marauders as we don't see Harry
preparing to move with him. While they had seen him, they didn't stand
up until he began to move.

OotP, ch 28:
Lupin and Wormtail remained sitting: Lupin was still staring down at
his book, though his eyes were not moving and a faint frown line had
appeared between his eyebrows; Wormtail was looking from Sirius and
James to Snape with a look of avid anticipation on his face.
"All right, Snivellus?" said James loudly. 

Whiz: James alerts Snape to the marauders presence and let's him know
that he's been seen. Very sporting.

OotP, ch 28:
Snape reacted so fast it was as though he had been expecting an
attack: dropping his bag, he plunged his hand inside his robes and his
wand was halfway into the air 

Whiz:  Snape makes a clearly threatening move.  

OotP, ch 28:  when James shouted, "Expelliarmus!" 

Whiz:  James disarms him.

OotP, ch 28:  Snape's wand flew twelve feet into the air and fell with
a little thud in the grass behind him. Sirius let out a bark of laughter.
"Impedimenta!" he said, pointing his wand at Snape, who was knocked
off his feet halfway through a dive towards his own fallen wand.

Whiz: Snape makes a dive for his wand. Sirius stops him.

OotP, ch 28:  Students all around had turned to watch. Some of them
had got to their feet and were edging nearer. Some looked
apprehensive, others entertained.
Snape lay panting on the ground. James and Sirius advanced on him,
wands raised, James glancing over his shoulder at the girls at the
water's edge as he went. Wormtail was on his feet now, watching
hungrily, edging around Lupin to get a clearer view. 

Whiz:  Wormtail shows a sadistic side.  We know he can do the death
curse and perhaps one heck of a Cruciatus. This may be our first clue
to his future.

OotP, ch 28:  "How'd the exam go, Snivelly?" said James. 

Whiz:  James taunts Snape.

OotP, ch 28:  "I was watching him, his nose was touching the
parchment," said Sirius viciously. "There'll be great grease marks all
over it, they won't be able to read a word." 

Whiz:  Sirius does the same. Dumbledore seems to think this is good
for them. I don't know why.

OotP, ch 28:  Several people watching laughed; Snape was clearly
unpopular. Wormtail sniggered shrilly. Snape was trying to get up, but
the jinx was still operating on him; he was struggling, as though
bound by invisible ropes.
"You - wait," he panted, staring up at James with an expression of
purest loathing, "you - wait!" 

Whiz:  Snape is not frightened, he's furious, apparently because James
and Sirius got the jump on him.  

OotP, ch 28:  "Wait for what?" said Sirius coolly. "What're you going
to do, Snivelly, wipe your nose on us?"
Snape let out a stream of mixed swear words and hexes, but with his
wand ten feet away nothing happened. 

Whiz:  Snape uses profanity and attempts, apparently vainly, to hex
the marauders without his wand.

OotP, ch 28:  "Wash out your mouth," said James coldly. "Scourgify!" 

Whiz:  James responds to the profanity and the threat of being hexed.

OotP, ch 28:  Pink soap bubbles streamed from Snape's mouth at once;
the froth was covering his lips, making him gag, choking him -
"Leave him ALONE!"
James and Sirius looked round. James's free hand immediately jumped to
his hair.
It was one of the girls from the lake edge. She had thick, dark red
hair that fell to her shoulders, and startlingly green almond-shaped
eyes - Harry's eyes.
Harry's mother.
"All right, Evans?" said James, and the tone of his voice was suddenly
pleasant, deeper, more mature.
"Leave him alone," Lily repeated. She was looking at James with every
sign of great dislike. "What's he done to you?"
"Well," said James, appearing to deliberate the point, "it's more the
fact that he exists, if you know what I mean..." 

Whiz:  Snape is always following them around.

OotP, ch 28:  Many of the surrounding students laughed, Sirius and
Wormtail included, but Lupin, still apparently intent on his book,
didn't, and nor did Lily. 

Whiz:  Lily and Lupin are the Gryffindor prefects. This is reminiscent
of the scene in the Gryffindor common room when Hermione confronts the
twins while Ron hides under a table. Hermione had better ammo.

OotP, ch 28:  "You think you're funny," she said coldly. "But you're
just an arrogant, bullying toerag, Potter. Leave him alone."

"I will if you go out with me, Evans," said James quickly. "Go on...
go out with me and I'll never lay a wand on old Snivelly again."

Behind him, the Impediment Jinx was wearing off. Snape was beginning
to inch towards his fallen wand, spitting out soapsuds as he crawled.

"I wouldn't go out with you if it was a choice between you and the
giant squid," said Lily. 

Whiz:  James and Lily flirt.

OotP, ch 28:  "Bad luck, Prongs," said Sirius briskly, and turned back
to Snape. "OI!"
But too late; Snape had directed his wand straight at James; there was
a flash of light and a gash appeared on the side of James's face,
spattering his robes with blood. 

Whiz:  Snape attacks James drawing blood.  I believe this fact is
significant. 

OotP, ch 28:  James whirled about: a second flash of light later,
Snape was hanging upside-down in the air, his robes falling over his
head to reveal skinny, pallid legs and a pair of greying underpants.

Whiz:  James retalliates with a method we later see DEs use on
muggles. He does not draw blood, nor does he torture Snape by spinning
him. He does however, humiliate the Slytherin.

OotP, ch 28:  Many people in the small crowd cheered; Sirius, James
and Wormtail roared with laughter.
Lily, whose furious expression had twitched for an instant as though
she was going to smile, said, "Let him down!" 

Whiz:  Lily sees humor in this situation, but she is, after all, a
prefect. And she takes her position and responsibility seriously.

OotP, ch 28:  "Certainly," said James and he jerked his wand upwards;
Snape fell into a crumpled heap on the ground. 

Whiz:  James accedes to Lily's request, putting himself in more danger
from Snape.

OotP, ch 28: Disentangling himself from his robes he got quickly to
his feet, wand up, 

Whiz:  Snape just won't quit, and again, threatens with his wand.  

OotP, ch 28:  But Sirius said, "Petrificus Totalus!" and Snape keeled
over again, rigid as a board. 

Whiz:  Sirius again responds to Snape's threat.

OotP, ch 28:  "LEAVE HIM ALONE!" Lily shouted. She had her own wand
out now. James and Sirius eyed it warily.
"Ah, Evans, don't make me hex you," said James earnestly.
"Take the curse off him, then!"
James sighed deeply, then turned to Snape and muttered the counter-curse. 

Whiz:  James again accedes to Lily's wishes.

OotP, ch 28:  "There you go," he said, as Snape struggled to his feet.
"You're lucky Evans was here, Snivellus -"
"I don't need help from filthy little Mudbloods like her!" 

Whiz:  Snape hurls the ultimate insult at Lily. Any doubt he's DE
material and a pureblood supremacist? 

OotP, ch 28:  Lily blinked.
"Fine," she said coolly. "I won't bother in future. And I'd wash your
pants if I were you, Snivellus." 

Whiz:  Lily, deeply offended, returns Snape's insults.

OotP, ch 28:  "Apologise to Evans!" James roared at Snape, his wand
pointed threateningly at him. 

Whiz:  James responds, but does not use magic.

OotP, ch 28:  "I don't want you to make him apologise," Lily shouted,
rounding on James. 

Whiz:  Lily doesn't want James to force an apology out of Snape.

OotP, ch 28:  "You're as bad as he is."
"What?" yelped James. I'd NEVER call you a - you-know-what!"
"Messing up your hair because you think it looks cool to look like
you've just got off your broomstick, showing off with that stupid
Snitch, walking down corridors and hexing anyone who annoys you just
because you can - I'm surprised your broomstick can get off the ground
with that fat head on it. You make me SICK."
She turned on her heel and hurried away.

Whiz:  More flirting. Besides, Lily had to get out of there in a
dignified manner before she lost her composure and burst out laughing.

OotP, ch 28:  "Evans!" James shouted after her. "Hey, EVANS!"
But she didn't look back.
"What is it with her?" said James, trying and failing to look as
though this was a throwaway question of no real importance to him.
"Reading between the lines, I'd say she thinks you're a bit conceited,
mate," said Sirius.
"Right," said James, who looked furious now, "right -"
There was another flash of light, and Snape was once again hanging
upside-down in the air.
"Who wants to see me take off Snivelly's pants?" 

Whiz:  Now that Lily has gone, James responds to Snape's insult to
Lily and puts him back in the air.

OotP, ch 28:  But whether James really did take off Snapes pants,
Harry never found out. 

Whiz:  Darn it all. 
It's interesting to note that while both Sirius and James speak to
Snape, he never addresses Sirius, nor does he attempt to hex him.
Snape's attention is totally concentrated on James. Why?

sigh... Yipes, this is long.... :/