[HPforGrownups] Olive Branch (was Re: Dumbledore the Counselor )

[Charme]

No: HPFGUIDX 124500


From: "lupinlore"


> True.  But it seems to me that DD is referring to his decisions about
> Sirius and Harry's fifth year, NOT about the full scope of Harry's
> suffering.  I readily acknowledge the DD shows remorse for his
> decisions and their effects during OOTP.  But I don't take his remorse
> as extending beyond that.

Charme:

I'm not as sure as you are about the flow of conversation - I think he is 
referring to both past and present events. Interesting the differences in 
interpretation, but I'm cool with you having yours and me having mine. :)

>
> I am referring to the section the begins "You had suffered..."  It
> reads, at least to me, as being quite brisk and businesslike, with
> little expression of remorse.  In fact, when Harry attempts to protest
> the Petunia doesn't love him, Dumbledore cuts him off and says "But
> she took you."  One way to read that is "You stayed alive kid and you
> don't have a right to complain.  So suck it up and quit being a crybaby."

<snipped the well worded DD apology scenario and thanks>

> Implied but not stated, and mixed in
> with all sorts of references to a "plan" that undercuts many people's
> faith that he really cared whether Harry suffered or not, at least
> during Harry's early life at the Dursleys.  The speech he makes in
> SS/PS about not wanting Harry's head to be turned muddies the waters
> badly as well, as does his reference in OOTP about Harry not being a
> pampered prince.  There is simply far too much fodder there for
> Puppetmaster!Dumbledore speculation.  I don't want to believe in that
> interpretation of DD, but JKR did little in that speech to dispel my
> disquiet.
>
> There is also the issue of why, having once placed Harry at the
> Dursleys, he did nothing to intervene to stop the Dursleys abuse.
> That is not even hinted at in his speech in OOTP.


Charme:

Again, while I see how you could interpret it that way, I'm not sure I agree 
completely.  I refer to telling the wonderful, terrible truth in a fashion 
where Harry would listen while he's obviously (and rightly in some respects) 
in a rage. I could make another observation that DD's way of communication 
in that portion of OoP is direct and honest, which is far more important in 
my mind:  he treats Harry with the respect due him by telling him the truth. 
Maybe that's why I place less importance on how he did it, and more value to 
the fact he did. I believe he cared more about keeping Harry alive (DD does 
admit that he felt Harry was in far more danger than anyone realized - a 
priority to mitigate in his mind) than if he suffered and I can see why you 
fault him for that. However, if he died I guess we wouldn't be having this 
conversation, now would we? ;)  Glad JKR didn't get all hung up on that 
one.....

Please don't be offended, but I find Puppetmaster!DD amusing.  Of *course* 
he's a puppetmaster, he's JKR's voice and she's the author! :)

Charme, who appreciates you took the time to discuss this!