John the Baptist again

[Hans Andréa]

No: HPFGUIDX 124737

From: "Tim Regan" <timregan at microsoft.com>

Hans wrote:
>>> I equate Ron to John the Baptist. Harry equates to Jesus; Ron to
John <<<

Tim:
But surely Dumbledore is John? Here's a quote from John the Baptist: "I
indeed baptise you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after
me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall
baptise you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: [...](Matthew 3:11-12).

Hans: 
Thanks for your comments, Tim. To be able to explain what I mean I'm going
to have to bring up some basic points. 

I'm not saying Harry Potter is based on the Bible. I'm saying Harry Potter
and the Bible are both based on the Path of Alchemical Liberation. 

Let me emphasise that I'm not asking anyone to believe the Path of
Alchemical Liberation is true. I'm saying Jo is writing a book which is a
symbolic representation of that process, and it so happens that the writers
of the Bible did the same thing. My series of posts is meant to show
everyone that. 

I want to remind you of what I said earlier, namely that the theologian and
professor Ton Harpur, author of "The Pagan Christ" proves that the whole
testament story was in circulation in Egypt for thousands of years before
Jesus was born. Tom says that the story of the Inner Christ was planted in
the human subconscious by God, and anyone who raises himself up to the high
spiritual level required will attune to that archetype and bring it into the
consciousness. Tom also says that the same story has been told in every
civilisation in every age. He gives a long list of Christ-like figures. 

If you can accept this premise as a working hypothesis, the next step is to
tell you that every time the story is told it uses different symbolism and
adds in different details to suit the culture and the zeitgeist. Basically
the story is very simple in outline: 
(1) a person becomes a seeker for liberation
(2) the seeker longs for God and so is given the alchemical force of
liberation
(3) a new soul-force is born
(4) the seeker realises he must give up his existence for the new soul
(5) the seeker surrenders himself and offers his life to the new soul
(6) the new soul reunites with God and becomes God's Son
(7) in some cases this new Son does not go back to God yet but stays behind
to help others.

To help people understand this process, the technique of PERSONIFICATION is
used. This means that forces and processes within the seeker are given human
names and characters and a fairly logical story is made for them so they
seem like real people. But please remember they're not people but forces
operating WITHIN a person who is going the Path. 

I know a lot of members are having trouble understanding this, but this is
what both Harry Potter and the Bible are doing. Harry Potter is not a human
being but a force WITHIN a person who goes the Path. Jesus is not a real
person, but a force within a person who goes the Path.

Geoff has stated that I'm contradicting myself when I say that Harry
symbolises both everyman and the Christ. Well I hope now everyone will see
that if we regard Harry as personifying a force that is born in a seeker for
liberation, and NOT as a human being, Harry can be both everyman and Christ.
Harry PERSONIFIES a divine force that can turn everyman into a Son of God.

It's exactly the same with John the Baptist. John personifies that aspect of
the human being which makes him long for liberation. He realises that he has
to give up his life for the force which will lead the person to liberation.

Tim:
Now, although Dumbledore is a really powerful wizard ("But you're
different. Everyone knows you're the only one You-Know- oh, all right,
Voldemort, was frightened of." McGonagall PS/SS Chapter 1) he realises
after the prophesy ("The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord
approaches" OotP Chapter 37) that he cannot vanquish Voldemort, only
Harry can. It is this powerful person awaiting the chosen one that we
see in John the Baptist and in Dumbledore (and in Yoda and in Morpheus
etc) but not in Ron.

Hans:
I see what you're saying. John says "He who comes after me is greater than
I", and as Dumbledore says Harry must defeat Voldemort you're saying he's
John. Dumbledore makes it quite clear however in the battle with Voldemort
in book 5 that he doesn't want to kill Voldemort. It's not that he can't.

"'You do not seek to kill me, Dumbledore?' called Voldemort, his scarlet
eyes narrowed over the top of the shield. 'Above such brutality, are you?'
'We both know that there are other ways of destroying a man, Tom,'
Dumbledore said calmly, continuing to walk towards Voldemort as though he
had not a fear in the world, as though nothing had happened to interrupt his
stroll up the hall. 'Merely taking your life would not satisfy me, I admit 
'"

In addition it is obvious from comparing Dumbledore with the Alchemical
Wedding and Revelation that Dumbledore personifies the Holy Sanctifying
Spirit which carries out the process of liberation. This will be explained
in my post on Dumbledore.

The real points which identify Ron as the old human personality that needs
to give up itself for the new soul-force are 
(1) Ron's self sacrifice in the chess game
(2) Ron's possession of Scabbers, who clearly personifies the old ego
situated in the solar plexus
(3) Ron's willingness to accept Harry as his leader (with a notable
exception in book 4)
(4) other points raised in my second post on Ron, coming later.

Hans also wrote:
>>> Ron's willingness to sacrifice himself teaches us that liberation
requires the giving up of self. "He who loses his life for my sake will
find it" (Matt. 10:39) <<<

Tim:
And this is the implication of John the Baptist analogies. If a
character does turn out to be analogous to John the Baptist, and that
analogy is played out in full, then that character will die, and die a
pretty senseless death at the hands of a mother and her beautiful
daughter.

Hans:
The Bible and Harry Potter tell the story in a different way. The point of
John's decapitation is that the old consciousness is replaced by a new one
-symbolically called the Christ consciousness. The stuff about Salome etc.
is, as far as I know, just a bit of decoration, just as many things in Harry
Potter are just for fun. I feel sure Ron will sacrifice himself at the end,
but I also think he'll survive. There are many ways to symbolise the
alchemical processes and I feel sure I'll be able to tell you what it all
means when book 7 has been published.

Tim:
"His food was locusts and wild honey." (Matthew 3:4)
Wild honey? Yes. Locusts? I don't think Dumbledore or Ron will be
ordering locusts anytime soon.

Hans:
They're symbols, Tim, symbols. You're welcome to see John as a historical
figure, but then I can't communicate my ideas to you. You'll only be able to
understand what I'm saying if you can see the eternal story of liberation as
a symbolical Path for every seeker.

Wild honey symbolises the divine alchemical force which the seeker absorbs
into his fourfold system of vehicles. It's like manna, the spiritual food
which transforms the mortal human being into a child of God.

Locusts are an alternative symbol for serpents. If a person eats serpents it
symbolises him "eating", i.e. absorbing divine wisdom. Such a person is
known in Alchemy as a "son of the serpents". In Harry Potter this is
symbolised by Harry knowing parseltongue. I know Harry isn't the same as
Ron, but does it matter here? The point is that if we go the Path of
liberation we begin to absorb divine wisdom by our surrender to the new
soul-force. When it comes to myths, metaphors and allegories, nothing can be
taken at face value. Everything is symbolic.

I hope that's explained a bit more about the way I see the intention and
meaning behind Harry Potter. Keep asking, and thanks again for your post.

Hans

=====

Hans Andra 
see you at Harry Potter for Seekers 
http://www.harrypotterforseekers.com/
 




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