What is [if] Snape knows

[cubfanbudwoman]

No: HPFGUIDX 125134


> > Siriusly Snapey Susan 
> > enjoying knowing someone else thinks Snape may know, but 
> > kinda hoping someone else will provide a really convincing 
> > argument that Snape doesn't know. You know? :-)

Mooseming:
> Ha! As my Granny used to say you want your cake and eat it too! 
> Well the answer may be in motivation. If Snape has no time for 
> `foolish wand waving' then I should think Diviniation, and 
> Trelawney in particular, have no currency with him. Not even on 
> his radar.
>	
> Snape may know about the prophecy but that doesn't mean he 
> BELIEVES or TRUSTS it, he may even resent it.

Nora expanded:
> I would say that this is an eminent possibility, but here is a 
> slight variation: there's a difference between 'knowing' 
> something (Dumbledore told me) and KNOWING something (I saw 
> that rat myself!).  That's certainly a thematic problem, the 
> question of "Do I rely on this person or do I need to actually 
> have the proof myself?". Ron believes in Dumbledore, so he 
> 'knows' that Snape is trustworthy, but Ron knows that he does 
> not KNOW that Snape is trustworthy.


SSSusan:
Elsewhere Pippin wrote a summary of her thoughts about what Snape 
and others know about the prophecy, and in that she suggested that 
Snape likely knows only that there *is* a prophecy, and not of its 
contents.  Snape's mission at the end of GoF, then, could have been 
that of going to Voldy in an attempt to get back into his good 
graces by telling him that if Voldy could merely possess the 
prophecy, he would be able to destroy Harry Potter.  

This clearly does not require Snape to, himself, believe such is 
true about the prophecy.  Nor would he need to know what the 
prophecy contains.  (Though he might have supposed its general gist 
by now.)

So, we have here so far:  
Me, who's always thought Snape knew at least part of the prophecy up 
to now and therefore could NOT understand Snape's treatment of Harry 
& Neville [125053];

Potioncat, who thinks perhaps Snape knows but is frustrated by the 
two potential prophecy boys, who seem so lacking in necessary skill 
[125056];

Valky, who believes Snape knows enough *of* the prophecy to tempt 
Voldy with it *and* that Snape may believe Neville is the real 
Prophecy Boy [125067]; 

Freud, who believes Snape knows but does not believe [125094];

Jina, who thinks Snape knows the first part but treats H/N as he 
does in order to toughen them up [125106];

Mooseming, who's suggesting that Snape may well know but can't bring 
himself to believe in it, in large part because of his own arrogance 
[125115]; 

Nora, who agrees with much of Mooseming's analysis [see above] but 
thinks Snape knows nothing of the prophecy [125122]; and 

Pippin who believes Snape is aware of its existence but likely does 
not know the contents because DD wouldn't have seen a need for Snape 
to know its particulars [offlist].

This is an interesting mix of possibilities, is it not?  Let me tell 
you why I'm leaning towards Mooseming/Nora, with perhaps a 
sprinkling of Pippin as backup.


Mooseming wrote:
> Confidence requires appropriate appreciation of true worth, 
> pleasure in achievement, understanding and support of failure, 
> acceptance of the whole and its unique place in the universe.

> Contrastingly arrogance is an exaggerated sense of one own
> importance. Exaggerated because the world does not reflect this
> view. The arrogant have not made their peace with the world.

> Arrogance, as I understand it, is born from lack of confidence, it
> is the refuge of the unloved and unappreciated, it is the 
> rebellious victim who cries `I'll show you what I'm worth, I'm 
> better than you' whilst at the same time fearing `I'm worthless 
> because X (someone significant) says so'.


SSSusan:
I have read before about Insecure!Snape, but this [sadly much-
snipped] analysis is the most lucid and believable one I have read.  
It explains adequately what could be going on in Snape's mind such 
that I can actually comprehend how he could both *know* the prophecy 
*and* still treat Harry & Neville as he does.  Brilliant, imo. 

Pippin, otoh, has provided a possibility for why Snape might truly 
still be in the dark about the prophecy's specifics, which, as I 
said in my original post in this thread, was the only possibility I 
could then see for his treatment of H/N.  

Either way, I'm a lot farther along than I was before. :-)

One final comment.  Mooseming said this:
> We are led to believe that Snape has switched sides which suggests
> a grievance with Voldy. This grievance, in accordance with his
> egocentricity, is most likely to be personal. It doesn't matter if
> you favour lollipops or not, there are other possible contenders:
> his mother, his father, his own pride which will not withstand
> mockery or perceived betrayal, simply promoting Bella over his head
> would do it for Snape.


SSSusan: Add to this possibility the one Kneasy has proposed -- that 
Snape was married w/ a child and that these persons died either at 
Voldy's hand or at his instruction.  Would also fit, no?

Gee, I hope we get some answers on this in 142 days.

Siriusly Snapey Susan