Marietta and Hermione (was JKR's Messages ) (was Re: Hermione In Trouble?)

[cubfanbudwoman]

No: HPFGUIDX 120942


SSSusan wrote:
> "For *THESE* kids, there was knowledge of Voldy's return, and 
> Cedric had been killed."
 
Del replied:
> I'm not sure what kids you're referring about, but if you mean the
> whole of the DA, then I have to argue that it wasn't so much 
> knowledge as information. Some of them may have *believed* Harry, 
> but belief isn't knowledge.
 
SSSusan wrote:
> "THESE kids were recruiting other kids, sharing the information &
> knowledge they possessed,"
 
Del replied:
> I disagree. Once the group was formed, they didn't recruit anyone
> except Seamus. In fact, they had promised not to tell about the 
> group to *anyone*, which by definition meant that they were *not*
> recruiting. I even remember someone asking some time ago how they
> managed to recruit Seamus without activating the jinx.


SSSusan:
I sent out a clarifying post right after I first posted the one 
you're responding to, Del, so I've backed off on some of my own 
argument.  But let me explain who I meant by THESE kids.  I meant 
Harry/Hermione/Ron/F&G/Ginny -- anyone in Harry's inner circle who 
understood/believed that Voldy was back, that Cedric was killed 
because he was back, that war was on its way.
 
As for recruiting others, I meant those other kids outside this 
small core group who ended up at the Hog's Head that first day.  I 
wasn't talking about any later recruiting, but those who came along 
to the HH without being a part of Harry's core group, those who were 
lacking as much info as they had. 

 
SSSusan wrote:
> "and they were calling themselves Dumbledore's *ARMY*.  To me, the
> implication is clear that they believed they were preparing for 
> their role in war."
 
Del replied:
> I disagree.
> They called themselves the DA as a joke, because the existence of 
> such an army was the Ministry's worst fear, not because they 
> thought they *were* such an army. Some of them did think they were 
> preparing to fight against the DEs, but the original intent of the 
> group was just to practice DADA because they couldn't do it in 
> class. And they stuck to that intent throughout the existence of 
> the DA : they never discussed the ongoing war again after the 
> first meeting. Whenever Harry mentioned LV in his lessons, it was 
> to say that this or that spell had helped him against LV.
> 
> If Umbridge had allowed the kids to practice DADA, there would 
> never have been any DA. It wasn't formed as a political entity, it 
> was formed as a practice group and the members were recruited 
> *only* on this basis, not on whether or not they believed Harry or 
> whether or not they wanted to fight against LV.


SSSusan:
Yes, I see this now.  I was mistaken previously.


Del:
> Hermione was never clear as to what the group was supposed to be. 
> She wasn't clear about what the requirements for membership were : 
> the only official requirement was that people wanted to practice 
> DADA, but then other requirements got added on to it, like 
> believing Harry's story and wanting to fight the MoM and LV, even 
> though I think several DA didn't fulfill those requirements. She 
> wasn't clear about what the parchment they signed was : at first 
> she said it was just a list of participants to the first meeting, 
> and then she added it was also an oath to keep the DA secret. In a 
> way, it's no wonder they got betrayed : they didn't even know 
> themselves what they really were.


SSSusan:
Yes, you've got a good point here.  Was the DA just about practicing 
defensive skills?  Or was it about preparing to face Voldy and his 
henchpeople later?  That should've been known & stated.  Was it a 
requirement that everyone believe Harry?  That should have been 
known & clearly stated.  And Hermione was in a bit of a spot because 
Harry wasn't ready to talk details for those who didn't know them.  

Maybe Hermione should have insisted that they keep it small at 
first, then.  If she knew clearly what they were all about, if she 
understood what was at stake and wanted only others who understood, 
too, then why did she "okay" all those folks coming who the core 
group didn't really know all that well?  Why didn't they scoot 
Marietta and others who seemed hesitant or reluctant right out the 
door?  Why try to *convince* them to join at this point?  

I'm starting to see more of the "Good Intentions/Misguided Efforts 
Hermione" that we see with SPEW in this initial HH meeting, too.

Siriusly Snapey Susan