JKR's Messages (was Re: Hermione In Trouble?)

[cubfanbudwoman]

No: HPFGUIDX 120943


SSSusan:
> > What do you make of the fact that it was JKR who was identifying 
> > the trio as persons she tends to see as "innately good"?  Do you 
> > think she's simply saying, that because of the choices she's 
> > going to *make* them make as their creator, she CAN see them 
> > that way?  Or is she saying that within the book, as characters, 
> > she sees them that way?  

Neri:
> Well, according to my own distinction I have a bit of a problem 
> with the logic of this discussion. If I consider the trio to be 
> innately good because JKR says so, then I'm obviously arguing from 
> outside the story. If OTOH I want to argue only from within the 
> story, then I have to pretend that the author doesn't exist, so 
> how do I know that the trio are "innately good"?
> 
> OK, I wouldn't want you to think that I'm avoiding the question. 

SSSusan:
LOL.  Not at all.  I think I've got you now.  Onward!


Neri:
> So lets pretend that we are within the story, we know the trio 
> personally and very closely, and someone told us that they 
> are "innately good". We are now considering if it is possible to 
> accommodate this statement with what we know about them. 
> 
> Are the trio little saints? Do they always choose good? Do they 
> have some magical power that prevents them from wrongdoing? Nope, 
> from my personal acquaintance with them this interpretation is 
> incorrect. And if some funny muggle woman would have told me that 
> she's "the author" and therefore she knows for sure that they 
> are "innately good", I would have told her that 1) she's crazy and 
> 2) she's not consistent with the way she wrote them.


SSSusan:
What if that crazy muggle woman also mentioned that by calling 
them "innately good" she wasn't trying to say that they're little 
saints who never break rules or never do anything wrong?  What if 
she said she meant that most of the time they follow their hearts, 
which is where they're finding the goodness, even in the face of 
being labeled "bad" for doing so?  

For me the phrase "innately good" doesn't mean so much that they 
can't do wrong but that their hearts are aligned with rightness and 
their tendency is to try to follow that, even if it means breaking 
official (external) rules which might tell them they're "bad".  


Neri: 
> A more realistic interpretation is that the trio follow good
> principles and values. Principles and values are just a practical 
> way of making choices. Instead of weighting the pros and cons and 
> having the whole moral discussion each time, you decide once about 
> a set of principles and then most of the time you just have to 
> follow them.
> It's much more efficient and it enables you to make decisions much
> faster, which is a distinctive advantage with choices that might 
> only be available for a second or two. It also makes being "good" 
> and "bad" look more like a description of an inner state than a 
> matter of choice. People who follow their principles faithfully 
> might appear as if they are pre-programmed, as if they are 
> innately good (or innately bad). But we shouldn't forget that they 
> chose which principles to follow and they chose to follow them 
> faithfully. If this is what the crazy muggle woman had meant, then 
> from my personal acquaintance with the trio I fully agree.  


SSSusan:
So you think perhaps they're not choosing A or B so much *each* time 
they're facing a dilemma or situation so much as are consistently 
following a set of principles & values they have previously chosen?  
I think I agree.  I think it's possible there is an inner set of 
principles and values [a moral compass?] which they attempt to & do 
follow consistently.  

So the question is *did* they choose this system?  Or is that what's 
innate [an inner light?]?  And is that distinction the problem we're 
having w/ JKR's comment?  If it was something they chose, then why 
call it *innate* goodness?  Isn't it more like you say, that they 
give the *impression* of its being innate because they're so 
consistent to the principles held inside?

Hmmm.  What does this do to a Percy?  He's certainly following a set 
of principles & values, *extremely* consistently, but he's not 
likely to be labeled "innately good" by either JKR or a reader or a 
character w/in the story who knows him well.  He's chosen the not-
quite-right set of principles & values, then?

Siriusly Snapey Susan, knowing she's spinning her wheels somewhat