[HPforGrownups] VWII and WWII (was Marietta and Hermione)

[charme]

No: HPFGUIDX 120989

> Charme wrote:
> " However we've already seen via comments from the Weasley twins  (if
> I recall correctly) that Arthur Weasley's fondness for Muggles is one
> of  the reason Fudge doesn't support Arthur getting ahead at the
> Ministry - a clue to a dangerous undercurrent belief of racial
> superiority similiar to what occurred when Hitler took office. Law or
> no law, it's ok to have the belief as long as you don't act on it
> perhaps? It's what I interpret when I read the books."
>
> Del replies:
> The issue is getting muddied again. It doesn't look like Fudge is a
> DE, so his holding back Arthur because of the pureblood superiority
> could in no way be a clue as to LV's return. It is indeed a clue
> (apparently only known to insiders, btw) about the rampant feeling
> about Muggleborns among some wizards, but that's no clue as to VWII.
> There were many people who disliked the Jews before and during WWII
> but who weren't Nazis in any way. And today, many people who hate the
> Jews are not neo-nazis at all.
>

charme:

With all due respect for your opinion, I wish you hadn't stated for fact the
issue was getting muddied in the manner you did, unless you mean muddied
toward the original Marietta discussion. If not, IMO a better way would be
to question by asking me to explain why I think it's relative, rather than
leaving me with the perception you've deemed what I've tried to explain
is entirely bogus.

I wasn't proposing the clue of pureblood superiority and racism applied to
LV's return exclusively. If I was unclear, forgive me.  I applied the
concept of what's happening in the formulative stages of VWII to what
reportedly began to occur prior to the declaration of WWII - law or no law,
there is an undercurrent that's hard in my mind to ignore and I don't think
it's limited to insiders in the manner you've suggested.  Arthur says as
much when talking about "Mugglebaiting" in OoP and how it's indicative of
something much more damaging than just a prank toilet regurgitating (ew) or
missing keys. Otherwise, why have the (albeit small) department he works for
in the Ministry? If I remember correctly, there's only 2 people in that
department: enough to keep up the pretense the Ministry is doing something
about it? It isn't that big a problem or so they'd like the WW to think? Or
is it just "not important" enough? Racism is multilayered, multifaceted
thing -not limited to whether you are a DE or not, to my way of thinking.

Pureblood or racism is a key issue in CoS, GoF and OoP:

-CoS reveals the Mudblood, Half Blood & Pureblood  terms and Slytherin
preference for purebloods only so much that he'd assemble a secret chamber
for a heir to finish his vision along with a little memory of LV to keep us
on our toes
-GoF introduces us to DE's abusing Muggles, named DE's and an overview to
what they believe
-OoP allows us to meet Siruis' mother among the Black family tree &
explanations, Umbridge & her half breed aversions, the revelation there are
Ministry employees who are DE's and working on LV's behalf

Frankly, with as little as we're supposed to see LV in the next book (he
likes his henchmen to do his work as I remember a JKR quote), he almost
appears not as important (at the moment anyway) as what's happening in
the WW society. DD actually refers to such, IMO, when talking to Harry after
the DoM encounter at the end of OoP:  he says that for too long wizards have
mistreated their fellows and now they are reaping their rewards. While not
"half breeds" of the same sort in the WW, the whole racial superiority
mantra  in WWII encompassed not only Jews, but homosexuals, gypsies and
blacks.In the WW,we have learned over the course of the books of racism
applied by some wizards to half breeds, elves, goblins, muggles, and
mudbloods. Each book we find there is more prejudice from wizards
against another group, and the Ministry has already passed some
laws and acts to control those other races! The progression of prejudice
and racism appears to be growing in the WW just as it did in Germany prior
to WW2. One has to wonder even if LV didn't return and given there have
been other seemingly "racial" wars in the WW
(Binns & his History of Magic class, you know) in the past, history might
have been doomed to repeat itself anyway.

I agree there were many people who disliked Jews before, during, and after
WWII: conceptually one could argue that it allowed many of them the
predisposition to "turn a blind eye" so to speak and not take any action or
ask questions. I'd submit that hating or disliking a certain group or race
may dispose the avg person *not to take action* when events occur
to that race or group which could be viewed as clearly as inhumane,
violent, and tragic. I am reminded of a story repeated by
the late Stephen Ambrose regarding a US unit who made German
townspeople close to one of concentration camps dig graves for
the dead at the camp - the US soldiers had the impression the
townspeople lived that close, knew what was happening, and went
about their daily lives as status quo, ignoring the starvation, torture,
and death happening half a mile away.

Where does the line get drawn between having tendencies toward a specific
racial mantra (Fudge), being a sympathizer or supporter to such view
(Mrs Black) and then being classified as racist? (LV, The Lestranges)
This isn't a question I can answer BTW,it's one of those morality and value
questions each person can answer for themselves. I will say this, for
myself and only myself,  racial tendencies and belief can be just as
destructive as outright action or portrayal of that belief.