CHAPTER DISCUSSION: Chapter 35, Beyond the Veil

[hickengruendler]

No: HPFGUIDX 121047


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "meriaugust" <meriaugust at y...> 
wrote:
 
> 
> 1) Before the release of the book, JKR told us that someone close 
to 
> Harry would die,
<snip>
> Did you think, before reading the book, that is, that 
> Sirius would be the one to die?

Hickengruendler:

No, I didn't. The first time when I thought about Sirius, was when I 
read a spoiler, in which was mentioned, that Lupin told to Harry, 
that X is dead. Nothing was mentioned about the dead character, not 
even the gender, but the fact that it was Lupin who told Harry, made 
me automatically think of Sirius. Other than that I didn't even 
consider him. But one of my closest friends did. He said that for the 
storyline, it would make sense if Harry loses his father figure when 
he's around 15 or 16. 

> What kind of repercussions do you 
> think his death will have on future plot lines? Christian 
allegories 
> aside, what exactly is behind the veil? 

Hickengruendler:

I can't put Christian allegories aside in this question, because I 
think that's what it is. It's the Department of Mysteries after all, 
and I think everything there must be seen metaphorically. The veil is 
IMO just a metapher for the barrier between Life and Afterlife.
 
> 2) Where was Mr. Goyle? Almost every other Death Eater from the 
> resurrection scene from GOF was present during the battle, so where 
> was he? Was he simply too incompetent to take on a mission of this 
> importance? Or did Mr. Goyle displease Voldemort in some way? How 
> will this affect Gregory Goyle's relationship with Draco Malfoy, 
> whose father has just been outed as a Death Eater? Does this mean 
> that Theodore Nott will be rising to new prominence in Malfoy's 
> circle? 
> 
> 3) For that matter, where the heck was Peter Pettigrew? Did 
> Voldemort worry that Peter's life-debt to Harry would be a 
hindrance 
> to him on this mission? 

Hickengruendler:

I'll put these two questions together. I think there are two 
explanations one withhin the storyline and one from JKR's point of 
view. I think that the explanation within the storyline is that 
Voldemort didn't think all his Death Eaters are needed and therefore 
he only sent a few of them to the DoM. And JKR obviously didn't want 
every Death Eater in Azkaban at this point, even if they will escape. 
Of course Goyle senior might still be brought to Azkaban, since Harry 
accused him in his interview and now everybody believes Harry. But I 
am sure the main reason Pettigrew wasn't there is because he has an 
important part to play in HBP and JKR couldn't have him in Azkaban at 
the beginning of the book. Or he wasn't there because JKR didn't want 
to prove Sirius innocence right now.

And no, I don't think Theodore Nott will rise to more prominence in 
Malfoy's circle. Seeing that Malfoy and the others left the wounded 
Nott in the DoM, I wouldn't be surprised if Nott won't get along with 
Malfoy at all.
 
> 5) Azkaban clearly drove Bellatrix over the edge, but she is also 
> quite clearly a powerful witch. What kind of spell do you think she 
> used to take out Sirius?  It wasn't Avada Kedavra, so maybe it was 
> something that the Death Eaters only know? The spells they used 
> during the battle were mostly nonlethal and Harry and the others 
> seemed a good match for them. Does this bode well for the training 
> Harry gave them in the DA? 

Hickengruendler:

I think the spells weren't lethal and the DA members were a match for 
them, because the Death Eaters couldn't risk to damage the prophecy. 
The kids are not yet in their league, but I am sure that will have 
changed during the climax of book 7, when Voldie and his army will 
attack Hogwarts and the DA will fight them, and ... *ups*, currently 
that's still my hope, not yet a fact.
> 
> 6) This has been discussed before, but what significance, if any, 
do 
> those other prophecies have? What kind of valuable information was 
> lost when the kids broke the shelves? How foolproof are the 
> recording procedures at the Department of Mysteries? Malfoy very 
> specifically says that only the people to whom the prophecies 
> pertain can remove them from the Department, not the shelves. Is 
> this why Neville could handle the prophecy? Does he still have a 
> part to play in this? 

Hickengruendler:

I don't think the other prophecies have any importance for the 
storyline. Of course the kids might have destroyed some important 
informations for the wizarding world, but not for us readers ;-). I 
think what Malfoy meant is that only these people the prophecy is 
about can remove it from the shelf. After all, he nearly told Harry 
to give him the prophecy. He wouldn't have done this, if he knew that 
Harry has to remove it from the DoM. Therefore I think Neville could 
touch the prophecy becaus eit was removed from the shelf. But I do 
think that the fact that it was Neville who was with Harry and 
touched the prophecy again is some foreshadowing and that Neville has 
some role to play concerning the prophecy. I think it meant Harry and 
that Harry will defeat Voldemort in the end, but I also think that 
Neville is still more involved in the prophecy storyline, than we 
currently know.
> 
> 7) Neville showed some impressive skills and more bravery in this 
> scene than in anything else he has done before. Is Timid!Neville 
> gone for good? How do you think his experience of the Cruciatus 
> Curse will affect him? If he gets a new wand what will it be made 
> of? What part will he play in future events? If Harry is the heir, 
> is Neville the spare?

Hickengruendler:

I'll contradict you and propose, that Neville showed exactly the 
bravery in this scene that he has shown since book 1. In the first 
book, he fought Crabbe and Goyle, and now he fights the Death Eaters, 
although he wasn't a match for either of them. Of course the Death 
Eaters are more dangerous than Crabbe and Goyle, but I think 
Neville's bravery was the same. He showed amounts of bravery in every 
book, except maybe CoS, where he hardly appeared. I don't think timid 
Neville is gone, he still seemed to me the same in the scene in the 
hospital wing in the last chapter, where he hardly talked.

I think the importance about the Cruciatus Curse is that he faced it. 
Some fans think, that Neville will sacrifice himself in the end to 
prove once and for all, that he's a Gryffindor, but I disagree. The 
real sacrifice for him was to be put under the Cruciatus Curse. This 
is worse for him than death, because of what happened to his parents. 
It wasn't the Avada Kedavra Curse where he nearly broke down in 
class, it was Cruciatus. Now that he faced and survived it, he will 
without a doubt be stronger.
 
> 9) When Ron got attacked by the brains I thought his number was up. 
> Whose brain was it that tried to strangle him? What is the 
> Department of Mysteries doing with the brains? Do you think Ron or 
> Ginny know about Dolohov being the one who murdered their uncles 
> Gideon and Fabian? How do you think they will react if they ever 
see 
> Dolohov face to face? And how about that Ginny? Did you really 
> expect her to have such guts? 

Hickengruendler:

I think they are sort of analysizing the brains, to solve the mystery 
of "Intelligence". But I have no idea what exactly they are doing or 
if JKR will ever answer this question. I did not think that Ron will 
die, because I thought, and still think, that Ron and Hermione are as 
important for the storyline than Harry and therefore won't die before 
the climax of book 7, if they die at all. I must admit I can't really 
remembering what Ginny did in this chapter, except that her ankle was 
broken by a Death Eater. Generally I thought her development in OotP 
was too rushed and unsatisfying. IMO, JKR did a much better job with 
Neville's or McGonagall's development.
> 
> 10) Many people have used Harry's protectiveness to Hermione in 
this 
> chapter as an indication that he likes her as more than a friend. 
> How do you think this chapter presents the various SHIPS? Harry 
also 
> stands in front of Ginny when she is threatened. Does this indicate 
> that he has feelings for her? Or is there simply too much vague 
> evidence? (I have no agenda with this one, just curious!)

Hickengruendler: 
I think this chapter doesn't present us with the ships at all. Of 
course Harry was frightened for Hermione's safety and was worried 
when she got wounded. She's one of his best friends after all. You 
could say that it's a Harry/Ginny moment when he stepped in front of 
Ginny when Bellatrix wanted to torture her. But I find those 
interpretations downright insulting for Harry, as if he wouldn't care 
for his friends but only for a possible love interest.

Hickengruendler